Hogan's "Secret" (Hinged Left wrist)

[bkoguy07]

Can someone explain with maybe pictures exactly what he means by this?  Is this cocking the wrist (hinging it) at the top of the back swing forming a relatively cupped left wrist instead of flat?  How does this help fight a hook vs a flat left wrist at the top?  I noticed my left wrist is pretty flat at the top of my backswing and this could be a big help to my problems striking the ball.  I'm looking for a little more clarity on this secret move though.

Thanks

[Chrepper]

I don't have pics, but I use it.

Basically, if you are looking down at your left hand on the grip, rotate it to the right, so you can see more of the back of your left hand.

[newtogolf]

I'm paraphrasing from memory, but in five lessons he states at just prior to impact the wrist should supinate rather pronate so that the palm is facing more up than down to maximize swing power at impact.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I was under the impression that the 'anti-hook' move was the one described on page 101:

Quote:

Every good golfer has his left wrist in this supinating position at impact. Every poor golfer does the exact reverse.

The reason this is an anti-hook move is simple:

A hook is caused by having an in-to-out swing path combined with a club face that is square to the target. This generates a mass of left-ward spin on the ball. By increasing the angle of the club face or opening it, we generate less leftward spin which in turn shapes the shot as a draw rather than hook.

By supinating the left wrist, the club face is opened more at impact; an anti-hook move.

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by bkoguy07

Can someone explain with maybe pictures exactly what he means by this?  Is this cocking the wrist (hinging it) at the top of the back swing forming a relatively cupped left wrist instead of flat?  How does this help fight a hook vs a flat left wrist at the top?  I noticed my left wrist is pretty flat at the top of my backswing and this could be a big help to my problems striking the ball.  I'm looking for a little more clarity on this secret move though.

Thanks

There is nothing secret about it.  You should experiment with the amount of rotation in your backswing, to see what works for you.  This is also affected by your grip.  A strong grip restricts rotation, while a weak grip allows for more rotation.

Hogan found that a full rotation (cupped lead wrist at the top) kept him from closing the clubface through impact.  However, it is just the opposite for me.  It keeps me from leaving the clubface open, and I have found this to be true with some other players.  That's why I say experiment .

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

The reason this is an anti-hook move is simple:

A hook is caused by having an in-to-out swing path combined with a club face that is square to the target. This generates a mass of left-ward spin on the ball. By increasing the angle of the club face or opening it, we generate less leftward spin which in turn shapes the shot as a draw rather than hook.

By supinating the left wrist, the club face is opened more at impact; an anti-hook move.

Completely the opposite. The supination is turning the palm upwards, which points the clubface more to the left (for a righty).

http://www.davidlnelson.md/anatomy12.htm (demonstrated with the right hand - make the same move while holding a golf club with only your left hand and you'll see that it turns the face DOWN and left).

Here's the full image. Palm faces upward. Clubface rolls a bit. Overdone, low-pull-hook city.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

By supinating the left wrist, the club face is opened more at impact; an anti-hook move.

Incorrect. Hogan is incorrectly using the term "supination" here. This is much of where his so-called "secret" comes from, I think. What he's actually referring to here is palmar flexion -- the bending back of the left wrist through the downswing and hitting area. It is defined as "the decreasing of the angle between the palm and the forearm."

The correct definition of supination in the forearm is "when the palm faces anteriorly, or faces up (when the arms are unbent and at the sides)." So supination here for Hogan means both supination and palmar flexion. The supination occurs when the lead arm rotates. But he forgot to add the palmar flexion part.

Palmar flexion (what he's actually referring to) shuts the face of the clubhead -- it doesn't open it -- it allows the hands to be ahead at impact. Its one of the moves that contributes to creating draw or hook spin. It increases ball compression...I could go on and on here over the good things it does for you.

Example 1: Dustin Johnson at the top of his backswing with extreme palmar flexion. His clubface is dead shut.

Picture Two here is an example of a golfer doing the opposite -- dorsiflexion of the lead wrist -- or "cupping" in golf terms -- is defined by modern medicine as "when the angle between the back (dorsum) of hand and the forearm is reduced." This opens the club face. Its extremely useful if you're hitting an explosion shot of some kind.

The clubface here is wide open. If these wrist angles are maintained through impact, the golfer will be flipping at the ball with a severely open face. This produces a push or push fade with minimal compression.

This mistake is just another example why Hogan's book is an out-dated teaching tool for many.

IMO

[JetFan1983]

Damn Erik beat me to the punch. I could have edited my post better. I wasn't clear enough in some sentences. If you hit a hook you probably have too much bowing of the wrist already. If you hit a weak push or push slice though with no distance it will help though.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Ah see my interpretation of supination from Five Lessons was the bending of the hand toward the forearm which seems to open the face more in a stationary impact position pose. That to me turns a hook into a draw. My bad! :( Thanks for clarifying though. The "weak push" comment may be handy for me personally. :)

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

What he's actually referring to here is palmar flexion -- the bending back of the left wrist through the downswing and hitting area.

This is one of those unclear parts, my bad. This is what Dustin Johnson does (probably why his driver face is custom built to be a few degrees open). Palmar flexion specifically just refers to a way the wrist can bend.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Incorrect. Hogan is incorrectly using the term "supination" here. This is much of where his so-called "secret" comes from, I think. What he's actually referring to here is palmar flexion -- the bending back of the left wrist through the downswing and hitting area. It is defined as "the decreasing of the angle between the palm and the forearm."

The correct definition of supination in the forearm is "when the palm faces anteriorly, or faces up (when the arms are unbent and at the sides)." So supination here for Hogan means both supination and palmar flexion. The supination occurs when the lead arm rotates. But he forgot to add the palmar flexion part.

Palmar flexion (what he's actually referring to) shuts the face of the clubhead -- it doesn't open it -- it allows the hands to be ahead at impact. Its one of the moves that contributes to creating draw or hook spin. It increases ball compression...I could go on and on here over the good things it does for you.

Example 1: Dustin Johnson at the top of his backswing with extreme palmar flexion. His clubface is dead shut.

Picture Two here is an example of a golfer doing the opposite -- dorsiflexion of the lead wrist -- or "cupping" in golf terms -- is defined by modern medicine as "when the angle between the back (dorsum) of hand and the forearm is reduced." This opens the club face. Its extremely useful if you're hitting an explosion shot of some kind.

The clubface here is wide open. If these wrist angles are maintained through impact, the golfer will be flipping at the ball with a severely open face. This produces a push or push fade with minimal compression.

This mistake is just another example why Hogan's book is an out-dated teaching tool for many.

IMO

OK I'm officially confused.

Palmar Flexion is when your wrist bends forward, decreasing the angle between palm and forearm.

Dorsiflexion is the opposite; it's your hand bending backward, decreasing the angle between the back of your hand and forearm.

Standing at address and applying Palmar Flexion to the left wrist pushes the club head backward toward the rear foot (hands end up more ahead of the club head), increases the right wrist flying wedge angle and opens the face.

Standing at address and applying Dorsiflexion to the left wrist pushes the club head forward toward the front foot (hands end up further back from the clubhead), decreases the right wrist flying wedge and closes the face. It resembles the "scooping" a lot of amateurs do when they start out.

That's the complete opposite to your description above.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Standing at address and applying Palmar Flexion to the left wrist pushes the club head backward toward the rear foot (hands end up more ahead of the club head), increases the right wrist flying wedge angle and opens the face.

Hands ahead good, increased flying wedge yes, but the face should be delofting. Do it so the face delofts.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Hands ahead good, increased flying wedge yes, but the face should be delofting. Do it so the face delofts.

Ah right so I was actually slightly rotating my forearm there even though it looked like a straight bend. It looked like a perfectly straight bend from my own view looking down at address but when done holding the club in just the left hand, vertically (thumbs-up) it's clear as day that it closes majorly.

I think I may have to add a little Palmar Flexion to my swing to fight this baby push I've been playing with.

Many thanks indeed!

[JetFan1983]

Well I hope it works out for you . Hopefully you need more of this in your swing. If you already fight a hook, feeling more palmar flexion is bad.

You could do some of this drill -- adding the exaggerated palmar flexion to it throughout the backswing and downswing. You know you are doing it right if you're hitting very well compressed baby draws that feel great off the clubface. If you're hooking it you are overdoing it (but at least you're doing it). If you are slicing, pushing, or push slicing, you are probably not palmar flexing enough, and/or your hands aren't inward enough.

In the end, the ideal here is perfect baby draws.

Good luck. Keep in mind, I'm but a humble Sandtrap member such as yourself -- and not an instructor . Hopefully, this is something you need in your swing. It might not be who knows. I tried viewing your swing but it was hard to in the thread you started. You need to post better clips (better angles, etc.) Correctly filmed swing threads always will have a higher reply rate.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Standing at address and applying Palmar Flexion to the left wrist pushes the club head backward toward the rear foot (hands end up more ahead of the club head), increases the right wrist flying wedge angle and opens the face.

You figured out that you were rotating your forearm a little when doing this, so that's good.

Ulnar deviation and palmar flexion both will effectively raise the handle, pushing the path farther to the right while maintaining a clubface that's relatively more closed to the path than before.

[hero12]

I tried cupping my wrist last year when having snap hook issues.  I didn't read too much into it, just made sure it was cupped at the top.  It felt a lot easier to get a lot of clubhead speed, and I hit amazing iron shots.  I shot my first round under par doing this, but a week later my game went down the tube, and I went back to my natural swing.

[bunkerputt]

Cool.  Another Hogan's secret thread.  I've got a secret too.  It was the last thing that I worked on that made be a better ballstriker.  That was the 'final' missing piece to improvement....by definition because I don't know what to work on next.  Get good enough, and it will be a long time before you find something new to improve on.  Become world class and you may actually convince yourself that you've discovered the secret to golf.

The cupping issue is really a simple one and I'm not sure why people are so confused about it:  your wrists hinge more with a cup.  Why do you want more hinge?  More power.  That's why the long-drive guys use strong grips.  They can hinge the club more and that grip keeps the clubface square.  If you want to cup with a weak grip, that's fine too, but you need to flatten it somehow by impact.  Maybe better said, "It needs to flatten by impact".  Hogan did this naturally in two ways, combining the power of the hinge with the accuracy of a clubface that's not manipulated.  One, he had soft wrists so that the Hogan hands through impact image was automatic.  That is, he released late, so with the club pointing up in the air, the cup wants to flatten out since the arms are being driven forward with the club back.  Two, he ever-so-slightly let the club sneak behind him for extra leverage on the backswing.  Then, on the transition, he pulled his right elbow into his side a little to get it back in front of him.  When you tuck your right elbow in at the TOB, the left wrist wants to flatten just a little.  The former much more extreme than the latter, but they both worked to flatten the left wrist.

Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but turning the hands down (left hand palm-up) like in the Hogan photo at impact causes the ball to go low and left if the clubface wasn't open at address.  You can just hold a club and do this to prove it to yourself.  Hogan's was open 5 degrees or so, so he could get away with this move.