Laying up

[keb]

My pars more often come from hitting a good pitch shot from 50 - 100 yards out and one putting.  I don't hit a lot of greens in regulation.   Hitting 3 wood or 2H from 200 yards out often gets me in trouble and can lead to a dreaded double bogey.  I have been scoring better by laying up in that situation and relying on my short game rather than long approach shot. Anyone else using this course management approach?  Seems like there is somewhat of a negative stigma to playing like this when everyone else is shooting for the green.  At the end of the round, I would rather have the lower score by avoiding trouble.

[mihi4]

I completely agree with you!

What you described sounds like perfect course management to me - if you want your score to represent how well you did.

If you just want to bang balls as far as you can, go for the green with every shot ;)

I played a course 1 month ago, with a 450yard par 4, with at least a 2-club wind right in my face and water besides the green. So I knew, there's no chance to reach it in 2 without bringing double or higher into play. Laying up to 80yd and a good pitch always gave me a chance for par or a maximum bogey (I played the hole 3 times).

greetings

michi

[Gioguy21]

while this is good for a handicapper such as yourself...it will only get your game so far. you'll only one putt so many times. you won't really get any better. getting on the green in reg is how you give your chance the ability to score. until then it'll be bogey or worse golf. just my .02.

[saevel25]

I must have the following conditions for going for the green...

1) are there any hazards, to many times i have hit one just right of the green, it hits this hard sidehill and its in the woods.

2) do i have a good angle

3) which club am i going at the green with

Like the one course i play, i usually go at one green only, because i usually have a long iron i can hit, and there isn't danger with my normal misses. The other one is longer and i really have to hit a great drive to get to a comfortable club, and the other has that sidehill miss right that gets me.

There's no shame in laying up..

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by saevel25

I must have the following conditions for going for the green...

1) are there any hazards, to many times i have hit one just right of the green, it hits this hard sidehill and its in the woods.

2) do i have a good angle

3) which club am i going at the green with

Like the one course i play, i usually go at one green only, because i usually have a long iron i can hit, and there isn't danger with my normal misses. The other one is longer and i really have to hit a great drive to get to a comfortable club, and the other has that sidehill miss right that gets me.

There's no shame in laying up..

I'm with you on this, most of the courses I play have no trouble in front, but they do long, so on those course I have no issues in hitting short and then chipping and putting for my par.  I have never tracked how many pars I make with a GIR and 2 putts vs. a chip and 1 putt, but I would suspect I make more pars with a chip and 1 putt.

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

I'm with you on this, most of the courses I play have no trouble in front, but they do long, so on those course I have no issues in hitting short and then chipping and putting for my par.  I have never tracked how many pars I make with a GIR and 2 putts vs. a chip and 1 putt, but I would suspect I make more pars with a chip and 1 putt.

so you're meaning to tell me you can get up and down with greater percentage than the odds of you making a 3 putt? you 3 putt THAT often? hmmm...

[Chief Broom]

I'm a big believer in playing the lay up, especially for high cappers, or anyone who finds themself struggling on the course.  I'll go so far as play away from trouble on tough par 3's.  If that means I'm taking the green out of the equation so be it.  Bogey isn't a bad score if you know that the shot you have to make to hit the green is not one you feel has much likelihood of success.  Don't think that by doing this you are short changing yourself or condemning yourself to never getting better, quite the opposit.  When you lay up you are presenting yourself with a very particular shot you want to make, so getting in the habit of doing this helps your ball striking skills the same as aiming for (and hitting) the green.  But what the lay up does is take into account your less than perfect ball striking skills.  Playing shorter clubs also has the added benefit of not putting you as far off line or in trouble as hitting the longer club in an attempt at the green when you happen to miss the shot.  Play the lay up long enough and you'll find yourself having to do it less as your confidence in your ability to pull of a given shot increases.  Playing the lay up also helps you to find what particular yardage (or yardages) you stand the best chance of hitting consistantly.  After awhile as your skills improve you'll be playing to these yardages off of every tee and relying on playing that lay up even less.

The ego is probably the main problem most golfers need to overcome in order for their game to begin to improve.

[saltman]

Those that need to take an approach such as this should first ask themselves if they are playing from the appropriate tee boxes.  If you are playing from the tips and find yourself hitting hybrids into 400yd par 4s, you are playing from the wrong tee boxes.  If you are playing from the tips on a 400yd par 4 you should be hitting 7-irons or less into the green assuming a reasonable drive.  If you have a low to mid-iron in your hand I would say 5-iron or less, you should almost never be thinking about laying up.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

Don't think that by doing this you are short changing yourself or condemning yourself to never getting better, quite the opposit.  When you lay up you are presenting yourself with a very particular shot you want to make, so getting in the habit of doing this helps your ball striking skills the same as aiming for (and hitting) the green.  But what the lay up does is take into account your less than perfect ball striking skills.

I don't think I've ever seen this mentioned before, and I've certainly not thought about it in those terms, but I like it.  Psychologically, you're giving yourself two major advantages over firing at the green: 1) a shorter, and therefore easier, shot that you're more likely to put on target, and 2) a much wider range of outcomes that you'll feel satisfied with.  If you aim at the green and miss by 20 yards, you're probably in trouble, but at the very least you were hoping your next shot would be a putt and that wedge in your hands is a reminder of your failure.  Miss a fairway layup by 20 yards and you're probably still on the fairway, feeling good about yourself.  Keeping yourself in the happy zone is only a good thing for your game.

Sure, you do need to challenge yourself sometimes, but you choosing your battles is important.

[the19thhole]

I agree with the point that with this approach the OP puts pressure on himself to one putt to keep his score down, but I disagree that he will not get better as he is fine tuning his short game. His original point was that if he has 200yds to go to the green he more often than not scores a double bogey and is playing scrambling golf, but with his lay up approach he is controlling his shot selection. Good course management for his current skill level. He will not improve his skill level by always feeling he has to go for the green, that's just ego golf which we all suffer from. As his game improves I'm sure he will start to go for more GIR. My game and scoring has certainly improved by adopting this strategy. Most of my high scoring holes are when my ego takes over. I now take the same approach as the OP, if I have to hit a wood or hybrid into a green with lots of trouble around it I don't do it. Sure I used to pull it off sometimes, but most of the time it just added strokes.

This happened at the weekend:

Par 4 416 yards plays slightly uphill. Lake short of green from about 360 yards to 390ish. Bunkers left and right of the green. The lake is not usually in play it just looks good. My partner drives off not long maybe 210. I balloon one out to around the same 210. You could say (rightly) 2 poor drives. I have around 205 yards to go. I layup short of the water. My partner gives me a funny look. His 2nd is around 200 yards. He promply hits his 3 or 4 hybrid into the water. I play my pitch to 6 feet and hole the putt for par. Result after a poor drive. My partner drops plays his 4th and 2 putts for a 6. My partner said that after hitting a poor drive he felt compelled to go for his 2nd shot. In truth the water probably still wasn't in play for the 2 of us on our 2nd shots I just didn't want to take the risk. A year ago my ego would have been screaming at me to hit the 2nd to the green on this shot or something similar. Worse case would have been a 5 by laying up and 2 putting, still better than my partner's 6.

The term layup is there for a reason and we could all do with learning what is a comfotable distance for us to hit to try and pitch and 1 putt. We all get hung up on stats GIR, % of fairways hit etc. The way I look at is this, for my handicap (12) I get to play one more stroke on 12 holes so this means (to me) for example on some par 4's GIR for me is on in 3 not 2. As I improve this gets less and so I have to be on in 2 more often (for par 4's). This stops me from feeling that I have to go for shots that I just shouldn't be trying for my current skill level. If you don't think you could hit the shot 7 times out of 10 then I say don't play it. Play the percentage shot. This way my scores are consistant and dropping as I improve, not up and down as they used to be.

Just my 0.02 on the topic.

[Long Ball Larry]

Originally Posted by saltman

Those that need to take an approach such as this should first ask themselves if they are playing from the appropriate tee boxes.  If you are playing from the tips and find yourself hitting hybrids into 400yd par 4s, you are playing from the wrong tee boxes.  If you are playing from the tips on a 400yd par 4 you should be hitting 7-irons or less into the green assuming a reasonable drive.  If you have a low to mid-iron in your hand I would say 5-iron or less, you should almost never be thinking about laying up.

I completely agree with this. Hitting a fairway metal or hybrid on your approach (assuming a decent drive) is ridiculous.

[Keep It Simple]

Laying up to avoid trouble is one thing.  Laying up because you are not accurate at 200 yards means you need to practice more.  Improving the GIR stat is key to lowering ones handicap.