Is there a master hand in a golf swing ?

[OCEANDJJACK]

Yes, and the pros have to hit thousands of golf balls to make it work!  Once they stop practicing, their technique falls apart quickly.  They go into terrible slumps.  I believe that their technique is so artificial, going against the principles of a simple and natural swing, the pendulum swing to be more specific, that for the average recreational golfer, their methods are not applicable.

Do you have tons of time to hit thousands of golf balls?  The modern swing may work for a few, but does not work for the masses who try to play the game simply on the weekends.  The average scores have not improved over the years for the majority of golfers  Most golfers can't break 100.  The industry uses a cookie cutter approach, the one size fits all.  This is rubbish!   Everyone is built differently, feels differently, hears differently, and on and on it goes.  The one common element is the sense of internal balance. That everyone has, otherwise you would not be able to walk down the street without falling down.  This should be a clue to learning how to swing.

Trying to copy the current pro swing model is just plain silly.  You must find your own internal swing by feel.  It is not difficult if you read my postings and try it out for yourself.  Get away from mechanics, as far as you can!  Pick up the club in your left hand, waggle it, and feel the pulling force of the clubhead due to its larger and heavier mass at the end of the stick.  This is the easy route to learning a swing that is unique to you.

When golf was invented they had a very simple swing model and very lousy equipment.  I don't know that the average golfer today, could beat an average golfer of yesteryear.  Just remember that golf is an industry.  The goal is to make a profit.  What better way to milk the cow than to teach something that is inherently easy, an make it as complicated as possible.  For one thing, the industry sends out a message. that if you buy the latest equipment, you will play better.  This is silly stuff.  If you want to get better, don't fall into the trap of using the pros as your swing model.  Good golfing!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

Yes, and the pros have to hit thousands of golf balls to make it work!  Once they stop practicing, their technique falls apart quickly.  They go into terrible slumps.  I believe that their technique is so artificial, going against the principles of a simple and natural swing, the pendulum swing to be more specific, that for the average recreational golfer, their methods are not applicable.

Do you have tons of time to hit thousands of golf balls?  The modern swing may work for a few, but does not work for the masses who try to play the game simply on the weekends.  The average scores have not improved over the years for the majority of golfers  Most golfers can't break 100.  The industry uses a cookie cutter approach, the one size fits all.  This is rubbish! Everyone is built differently, feels differently, hears differently, and on and on it goes. The one common element is the sense of internal balance. That everyone has, otherwise you would not be able to walk down the street without falling down.  This should be a clue to learning how to swing.

Pros are all built differently, have different feels, hear differently, and on and on as well.

The simple fact of the matter is that the pros all have some things in common and the worse the golfer the farther away from those things you get. You'll not become a good golfer with your weight all over your back foot at impact, regardless of how much "feel pulling the weight of the clubhead" you do.

[poser]

you do realize every pro out there watched other pros growing up and learned the game from them in one way or the other.  The main way people learn is from others.... Did you just tell the math teacher in school that it was to hard and you were just going to make up your own equations? The again you are a 9 handicap who must pure every shot you hit so what do these pros know.

[OCEANDJJACK]

I don't believe you can become and accountant, as an example, by watching one work, or a surgeon, or for that matter a golfer.  Learning how to play golf is a journey, to me, of one of discovery.  You must learn on your own, not by mechanics, but by feel, trial and error, and finding your balance as you swing.  I concede there are many paths to learning a golf swing.  Some take years to master for the average golfer.  I don't believe this has to be so.

As far as weight transfer is concerned.  If you keep your spine angle stable and centered, and keep your center of gravity centered as much as possible, the action of your left hand pulling your left arm, pulling your left shoulder, will cause a slight natural weight shift, ever so slight, and that is a natural action, no conscious thought is required.

On the way down, the left hand leads with the left arm, followed by the left shoulder.  Any core rotation is a result and not the cause of the swing.  The sequence is left hand, left arm, left shoulder, the weight shifts ever so slightly to the right, then, the opposite thing happens.  The left hand and arm move towards the ball, the left shoulder follows, the body core is responding without conscious thought, as does the weight moving off the rear foot and eventually onto the front foot after the ball is on it's way towards the target.

Most of the things taught to do are things that actually happen automatically.  What you must focus on is how to get the clubhead moving, how to follow with the left arm and shoulder uo to the top.  Then, allow the left hand and arm to change direction and return to the ball.  The  body will automatically adjust to keep you in balance.  If you swing smoothly with correct pace, following the clubhead pace, and not exceeding it, you will stay in balance easily.  The weight will not remain on your rear foot.

When I gave up on mechanics, and went to learning how to swing the clubhead, my score dropped by over 20 strokes for nine hole, on a more difficult back nine holes.  Yes, that is the kind of improvement is possible if you swing the clubhead, and not the club with brute force or leverage.  You must focus on the feel of the clubhead with your left hand.  You need a light hold on the club to do this. Never use excessive force.  Ease your your way into the swing, keep it nice and easy, and the results will blow your mind.  I don't swing hard and I kill the ball.  You can as well.  But first you must experience the real golf swing, in balance, without excessive force.

[Beachcomber]

Ok.  I'm off to the range.  I'm only swinging with my left hand.  Everything else will come natural, right?

[OCEANDJJACK]

I think you know better than that!  It starts with waggle of the left hand.  Do you know how to infuse life into the clubhead, and then follow it easily with the left arm and then shoulder?  Their is a definite technique to be used.  Read my posts, again, and again, until you get the message and understand it.  Then go to the range with your left hand and discover the truth about the golf swing. I am only trying to broadcast the hidden truth about the pendulum swing.

In my opinion, if you want to hit straight and far, more consistently than ever, then, give this a try.  My golfing partner asked me how I was able to git so many fairways and greens in regulation.  I told him.  He listened, and gave it a try.  His first few attempts had terrible results.  He did not quit.  By the next hole he began to get it.  By the next hole after that, he was hitting longer and straighter with his driver. His improvement did not take weeks, months or years.  It took three holes!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Wow.

So, how far did you get. I was still reeling from tiger woods post about being amydextrice, and when I hit Oceans 57 I lost a few IQ points.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

You must learn on your own, not by mechanics, but by feel, trial and error, and finding your balance as you swing.

So what percentage of golfers on the PGA Tour, or even the mini tours, learned 100% on their own? The list gets really small after Bubba (who has had instructors, he's just never paid for a lesson - his college coach helped him out, etc.)

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

As far as weight transfer is concerned.  If you keep your spine angle stable and centered, and keep your center of gravity centered as much as possible, the action of your left hand pulling your left arm, pulling your left shoulder, will cause a slight natural weight shift, ever so slight, and that is a natural action, no conscious thought is required.

The average PGA Tour player has 85-95% of the pressure under his lead foot at impact. Is that a "slight natural" weight shift?

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

On the way down, the left hand leads with the left arm, followed by the left shoulder.

Huh? The hand leads the arm and the shoulder? I'd love to see a diagram or something showing that .

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

When I gave up on mechanics, and went to learning how to swing the clubhead, my score dropped by over 20 strokes for nine hole, on a more difficult back nine holes.  Yes, that is the kind of improvement is possible if you swing the clubhead, and not the club with brute force or leverage.

So we're all clear: you were shooting in the 60s on nine holes, and are now shooting in the 40s, and you think that's good enough to warrant posting and telling everyone else they've been doing it wrong for the past 100 years or so?

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

I think you know better than that!  It starts with waggle of the left hand.  Do you know how to infuse life into the clubhead, and then follow it easily with the left arm and then shoulder?  Their is a definite technique to be used.  Read my posts, again, and again, until you get the message and understand it.  Then go to the range with your left hand and discover the truth about the golf swing. I am only trying to broadcast the hidden truth about the pendulum swing.

Awww, crap, that's why I shot a 69 (18 holes) earlier today. I forgot to take my left hand with me! Surely I'd have broken 60 if I had taken my left hand and discovered the truth about the golf swing.

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

In my opinion, if you want to hit straight and far, more consistently than ever, then, give this a try.  My golfing partner asked me how I was able to git so many fairways and greens in regulation.  I told him.  He listened, and gave it a try.  His first few attempts had terrible results.  He did not quit.  By the next hole he began to get it.  By the next hole after that, he was hitting longer and straighter with his driver. His improvement did not take weeks, months or years.  It took three holes!

Was he able to shoot in the 50s for nine holes!?! Amazing!

[Beachcomber]

[LovinItAll]

So, how far did you get. I was still reeling from tiger woods post about being amydextrice, and when I hit Oceans 57 I lost a few IQ points.

Just a few? My brain went into the bucket.

[OCEANDJJACK]

You people are missing the point.  The average golfer will never be able to use the methods of the pros.  The average scores for the average golfer have not improved for the past several decades.  I don't care what the pros do.  Neither should you.  My comments are based on personal experience.  What are your opinions based on?  Watching golf of TV?  What do you bring to the party? What wisdom can you share,that would make a difference to the struggling weekend golfer?  You people are good at making stupid comments, and I fear, not much more.  Grow up!

[nevrino]

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

You people are missing the point.  The average golfer will never be able to use the methods of the pros.  The average scores for the average golfer have not improved for the past several decades.  I don't care what the pros do.  Neither should you.  My comments are based on personal experience.  What are your opinions based on?  Watching golf of TV?  What do you bring to the party? What wisdom can you share,that would make a difference to the struggling weekend golfer?  You people are good at making stupid comments, and I fear, not much more.  Grow up!

The average golfer is not getting better because the average golfer is not ready to make changes in his golf swing. He/she has found the way to swing a club, often by himself or a few lessons in his early golf days and it's scary and uncomfortable to make changes. That applies to 95 % of the golfers I have played with. If I see something that would help in my dad or sisters swing or her boyfriend's swing I don't tell them, I have tried sometimes but as they don't want to make changes and just want to be better it's pointless.

[logman]

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

You people are missing the point.  The average golfer will never be able to use the methods of the pros.  The average scores for the average golfer have not improved for the past several decades.  I don't care what the pros do.  Neither should you.  My comments are based on personal experience.  What are your opinions based on?  Watching golf of TV?  What do you bring to the party? What wisdom can you share,that would make a difference to the struggling weekend golfer?  You people are good at making stupid comments, and I fear, not much more.  Grow up!

Right on!!

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by nevrino

The average golfer is not getting better because the average golfer is not ready to make changes in his golf swing. He/she has found the way to swing a club, often by himself or a few lessons in his early golf days and it's scary and uncomfortable to make changes. That applies to 95 % of the golfers I have played with. If I see something that would help in my dad or sisters swing or her boyfriend's swing I don't tell them, I have tried sometimes but as they don't want to make changes and just want to be better it's pointless.

That's been my experience as well. I used to have a golfing buddy (unfortunately passed away) who had been playing golf before I was born. He had a mediocre swing that was well ingrained, so he played pretty decent golf. He was prone to a snap hook and asked me why. I saw that his left hand  (he was a righty) was in a weak position on the grip while his right hand was in a strong position and they were therefore not working together. I tried to impart on him the proper grip principles, but his response was "But I like a strong grip", so I gave up.

[logman]

So is it possible for the one liner guys to stfu and let oceandjjack talk about golf......please

[nevrino]

Originally Posted by logman

So is it possible for the one liner guys to stfu and let oceandjjack talk about golf......please

He can talk as much as he wants but i'm not accepting what he's saying and then a discussion is pretty normal.

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by OCEANDJJACK

You people are missing the point.  The average golfer will never be able to use the methods of the pros.

See this is why you're not getting any traction with your posts. I don't agree with you on this one statement and neither do the majority of people responding (obvious exception/cheerleader aside).

This is a foundation of your theories, but as we disagree with the foundation we're very unlikely to find much else in your statements.

No one is saying anyone should go out and pick a tour pro and try and mimic their swing. But these guys do it better than anyone and so there are lessons there for all of us to learn about why they do it so well. They might play the game on a different level to us, but it's still the same game. Why discount those who do it best from the way you think about golf? It makes no sense.

[OCEANDJJACK]

I don't care if you accept what I say.  You can practice and play and think what you wish. If you are already a fairly good golfer, then you need not be on this site.  Just go out and play.  My comments are for open minded people who are looking to get better quickly.  The traditional methods today can not promise you anything but years of lessons, and save you a few strokes here and there.

I promise you, editorial you, the struggling golfer, another approach to the game, which has been all but tossed aside.  My comments are for those interested, struggling golfers, that have not found what works for them  Perhaps you have, I certainly have, and would not change a thing in my approach to the game.   It appears that the current crop of younger players do not appear to have an open mind, or curiosity, to go out a try something else.

I don't care if my posts do not gain any "traction" and that is not why I post.  I post for open minded people who can't afford to see a pro for lessons.  You may believe that trying to emulate the pros is a good thing.  I could not disagree with you more.  These guys practice until the cows come home.  The average golfer needs a simpler approach.  If you don't get it, well, too bad for you.  I am happy you have the money, time and lots of pro lessons behind you.  Most of us don't have that luxury.