Can anyone with a GPS/rangefinder comment on this?

[LuciusWooding]

I was at a local course today, and noticed a couple shots that went way farther than they should have, based on my yardages at a range. I usually hit my driver, for example, anywhere from 180 to 210 carry. I have a high ball flight and the range I use is tall grass so it usually won't roll much at all. On one hole, I hit a pretty good shot into the fairway, and wound up 50 yards out. This would indicate about a 240+ yard drive, which is a lot farther than it looked to me. It appeared to be an average hit, even accounting for roll.

On another hole, it was a 175 yard par 3. I commented that the hole appeared shorter, maybe 150-160 to the center of the green. My playing partners told me it was surely as posted and was only a deceptive hole setup.

I got my 5 wood, which I normally carry 160, and hit a solid shot that sliced maybe 10 yards. It landed over 30 yards past the hole, pissing me off.

So either I hit a 200+ yard 5 wood, which I think is a quite long distance for that club, or I was right about the hole being at 150, and I hit a normal solid shot that rolled an extra 10 yards.

How do the course designers measure the posted yardage from each tee box? Granted I'm not the most consistent player, but 25 yards of error seems a bit high, regardless whether it's a freak swing, my range being mismarked, or the course being mismarked. As a result, instead of hitting or rolling onto the fringe of the green, I was staring down a mighty oak that seemed to be placed there to taunt players like me. I ended up with a 5 because I couldn't chip today, and couldn't get onto the green from my lie.

Anyone have any comments, questions, or stories?

[Paradox]

My home course is measured from the center of each tee box down the line of play/centerline of the fairway to the center of the green and all the distances are pretty spot on.

All par 3's have a yardage medallion at the center point of each tee box(but on the side of the teeing ground) that matches the card yardage for that tee box...

Your friends probably looked at the card for the set of tees you all were playing and repeated the distance without noticing that you were playing up a tee box.

I was playing in a tourney once...Got to a par 3 and saw that the hole marker said 171...thats a stock 7 iron to a tee...I hit it, its dead on the pin, its flying so perfectly......."get down, get down, get down!" it flew 20 yards past the green..tell my partner that I just hit my 170 club and he says "Didn't you hear me tell you that its only 150 from here?  Sure enough there was a 150 marker right beside the box..lol.

[dhanson]

Google Earth has a feature which allows you to measure (pretty accurately) distances between set points. you can either use two set points or multiple (for doglegs). here's an example from my course.

the measurement starts right on top one of the 100 yard markers in the fairway (i circled the other ones and the marker on the cart path). if your course has distinct markers like this, it really helps confirm yardages.

i made a little yardage book using Google Earth. luckily, my course is very accurately marked already, so i didn't have to record yardages on all the par 3's, but i do measure the width/depth of the greens, which, depending on where the pin is, can make a club more/less difference.

if you're not playing a course a lot, i would suggest making a yardage book. for instance, i recently played a course i only play 2 or 3 times a year and made a book for the par 3's, measuring the distance from the front edge of the tee box i would be playing from, to the back of the green and to the front of the green. a lot of courses don't have yardage markers set in the ground on par 3's, so if they move the tees back 5 yards, and the pin is back 5 yards from the middle of the green, then the marked yardage from the card is probably off by a club. if you know that the distance from the front of the tee box to the back of the green is 160 yards, you can just pace off the distance to your tee box.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

How do the course designers measure the posted yardage from each tee box? Granted I'm not the most consistent player, but 25 yards of error seems a bit high, regardless whether it's a freak swing, my range being mismarked, or the course being mismarked. As a result, instead of hitting or rolling onto the fringe of the green, I was staring down a mighty oak that seemed to be placed there to taunt players like me. I ended up with a 5 because I couldn't chip today, and couldn't get onto the green from my lie.

What about  the range balls at your range. Are they normal balls, comparable to the one you used on the course? I think 10% could be easily the difference.

Does this course have a Course Rating and Slope? If it has, the total length of the course should not change, much, if the tees are moved.

Anyway, in my experience, I would trust the tee markings and yardages more than my +/-10yd GPS.

[colnago1331]

Range balls are often flight limited to keep them from going too far (i.e. over the fence) so you shouldn't gauge your distances off of how far you hit a club at the driving range.

[Grumpter]

I third the "don't trust range balls distance". Also, we have one local course that measures to the back of the green. Of course they don't mention that they measure to the back you have to figure it out for yourself or be forwarned.

[LuciusWooding]

My driving range doesn't use range balls, they use lost balls. There are some in there with the red stripe, but also a lot of shiny titleists with no scuffs. Despite the mix, I don't usually have a whole lot of variation on a given day, and only the woods seem to get affected.

I measured the offending hole, and it was about 175.08 or so. I hit my tee shot about 196 after all. My buddy hit his 5i, I had mine in my hand but thought I needed the extra yards since I hit my 5i 150-160. My buddy hit the front edge of the green... And I'm longer than him by a fair bit, so it makes me wonder what could have been.

[Grumpter]

That seems odd to hit your 5i 150-160 and then your 5 wood only 160. I would expect 190-195 would be the average 5w for someone hitting a 5i about 155.

[LuciusWooding]

Well, for one thing, I have a very high ball flight, so I don't get too much roll. All my fairways and irons are really old and not too forgiving, so the lengths can vary a decent bit at times, but I was hitting consistently the week prior. If I had a fitted set of burners or something, with modern lofts and longer shafts, I'd probably pick up 10-20 yards, where the 5 wood might not add as much, though a higher launch and graphite shaft would help.

I did get some good swing advice that day, regarding my backswing; I am very flexible and was bringing my club past parallel with the ground, and I changed from that to sticking with a shorter backswing and less wrist cock. It's possible that this small change added a big chunk of yards, but it's vexing that I hit it 2 clubs farther than normal. The landing spot was equivalent to a driver with little to no roll for me.

It seems that I need to go to the range this week and see if I can spot any difference, but it appears I may need to reevaluate my yardages again. I hope it's not a fluke, because I wouldn't mind hitting that distance regularly.

How do you lot determine which club to hit, just through experience from the course? I only started golfing in April, so I ought to expect an occasional jump in distance. It could've waited until I hit the range, though... I'd gain more satisfaction from hitting where I aim it rather than smashing my personal best distance. It seems arrogant to me to assume a 25% increase in distance from my average carry just because of a new ball and long roll.

[Paradox]

I know my clubs distances and I know where I want the ball to land.  I know the carry yardage and play from that.  It took a lot of time on a real course and a lot of driving range time to finally get the distances nailed down(working myself into a good repeatable swing).

Once you KNOW how far your clubs go, the game opens up and becomes even more enjoyable.

[utztech]

I have a laser range finder.  My experience is that on munis and other 'budget' courses that yardages are often not accurate, or the tees are moved up quite a bit.  For example I was playing a hole marked as 395 yards on the card yesterday.  I hit a good drive and when I lasered the flag I had 95 yards left.  I thought I hit a good drive, but not that good.  There was a tree next to the tee box so I stood by my ball and lasered the tree, 265 yards.  Now the flag was in the front part of the green and the tee was moved up a bit from the back of the box, but it was not enough to account for the 40 yard difference. I think this sort of thing accounts for a lot of guys thinking they hit 300 yards.

On nicer courses around here there is almost always a marker somewhere on each tee box that has the distance to the center of the green and I find them accurate.

One other thing, if you are a high handicapper your average distance is going to be less than the occasional ball you catch just right, so maybe your work on the range is starting to pay off, or you just caught a couple of balls really well.

[GoldenBearCub]

I've also noticed this problem on low budget courses, mainly for the fact that there distances aren't USGA GAM approved, you know, when you see the gold circular emblem on a tee box? USGA certified distance. All country clubs have 'em. Not too many munis, but some do. Always laser the shots is what I do, NEVER trust just the sprinkler head or scorecard. Scorecards can be WAY off sometimes due to constant tee changes.

[dhanson]

Originally Posted by GoldenBearCub

I've also noticed this problem on low budget courses, mainly for the fact that there distances aren't USGA GAM approved, you know, when you see the gold circular emblem on a tee box? USGA certified distance. All country clubs have 'em. Not too many munis, but some do.

what is the GAM? the only thing i came up with is the Golf Association of Michigan. i've never seen a circular gold emblem on a tee box. pictures?

edit: i just scoured through pictures of the top 5 private courses in michigan (at least according to golflink) and couldn't find an example of this.

[GoldenBearCub]

yeah it's golf association of Michigan, but sorry I guess no one has the time to take a picture of one. It's a gold plated emblem, about the size of a sprinkler head, used to express the fact that the hole has been measured appropriately according to USGA measuring rules. Could be complete BS, maybe its just an extra perk that courses can just say they have. Who knows.

[Paradox]

the marker doesn't have anything to do with measuring a hole using USGA standards.  You can have any marker in the world that you want as long as you follow the USGA procedure for measuring.  Whoever told you about it denoting anything was blowing smoke.

[iacas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradox

the marker doesn't have anything to do with measuring a hole using USGA standards.  You can have any marker in the world that you want as long as you follow the USGA procedure for measuring.  Whoever told you about it denoting anything was blowing smoke.

That's not entirely true.

I rate courses and in order to get a rating (course/slope) the course usually has to belong to and sometimes pay extra to the local golf association, in my case, the Western Pennsylvania Golf Association (wpga.org). The golf association will install - or authorize the installation of - metal plates that are used, typically on the back tee, to denote the official spot from which the measurements are taken. Some do them on a few tees, particularly if they're not all lined up.

For example, this plate is included on the page at the Florida State Golf Association rating page . I'll quote briefly:

Quote:

The starting point from which each hole is measured must be defined. Normally the middle of the teeing area is used. (See Course Set-up, Section 15-2.) Opposite this starting point, a visible permanent yardage marker such as a concrete slab, metal plate or pipe set flush with the ground must be installed at the side of the tee. Permanent markers are essential. It is recommended that the hole yardage be visible on the marker. Permanent yardage markers should be installed at the side of each set of tees. If alternate tee areas are used, it is important that permanent yardage markers be installed on each area.

On a nine-hole course, if separate tees or tee-markers are used for each nine of an 18-hole round, separate measurements and permanent yardage markers shall be established for each nine. The yardage markers (and their respective tee-markers) for each nine should be uniquely identifiable.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's not entirely true.

I rate courses and in order to get a rating (course/slope) the course usually has to belong to and sometimes pay extra to the local golf association, in my case, the Western Pennsylvania Golf Association (wpga.org). The golf association will install - or authorize the installation of - metal plates that are used, typically on the back tee, to denote the official spot from which the measurements are taken. Some do them on a few tees, particularly if they're not all lined up.

For example, this plate is included on the page at the Florida State Golf Association rating page. I'll quote briefly:

Quote:

what I was saying was that there isn't some specific colored marker that has to be used in order for it to be "official"  They are all different.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Paradox

what I was saying was that there isn't some specific colored marker that has to be used in order for it to be "official"  They are all different.

Okay. I took your post as a response to the idea of the "gold plated emblem" thing. They have those and they're not really "tee markers" as you seem to know.