Did Jason Dufner choke?

[x129]

Making pars would have put out the fire. There are 2 ways of looking at this.

-If your up by 5 with 4 to play, pretty much every  PGA pro would like their chances.I bet that most pros would expect to win 90% of time unless the other guy shot an eagle and couple of birdies

-He really didn't have a crazy blow up hole. This wasn't Rory at the Masters. Jason was just off a little bit.

Originally Posted by FowlPlay

I think it was a little of both.

Dufner choked by losing that seemingly large lead, but Bradley played incredibly. How do you stop a guy on fire like that?

[newtogolf]

At a normal course and setup you're right, play for par, but 16-18 played with an average over par for the tournament.  People are also forgetting that the wind really started blowing at the end as well.

Originally Posted by x129

Making pars would have put out the fire. There are 2 ways of looking at this.

-If your up by 5 with 4 to play, pretty much every  PGA pro would like their chances.I bet that most pros would expect to win 90% of time unless the other guy shot an eagle and couple of birdies

-He really didn't have a crazy blow up hole. This wasn't Rory at the Masters. Jason was just off a little bit.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by iacas

Dufner had a five-shot lead that dwindled quickly. Keegan birdied 67% of the holes he played (and nearly 100%). Two birdies over that three-hole stretch to close out regulation play is "so many birdies" in my book. When you go birdie-birdie-par over that stretch and close a five-shot lead in three holes, that's pressing.

To me that's the key issue here. Dufner had a 5 shot lead over a guy he could have easily assumed would continue to go backwards after a devastating triple bogey. The bottom line is what Bradley did took him completely by surprise. To that end, I hazard to guess that had Bradley only bogied the 15th and then just parred the next 2 holes, Dufner probably thinks and plays in a little differently and holds on for the victory.

[ThominOH]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

At a normal course and setup you're right, play for par, but 16-18 played with an average over par for the tournament.  People are also forgetting that the wind really started blowing at the end as well.

YES.. the final 4 finishing holes played a total of 1.5 over par for the week.. give or take a couple tenths..  Jason played them 3 over in 4 holes.. It doesn't matter that Keegan birdied 2 of the holes or not.. Keegan was 1 over par for the final 4 holes.. Lets just call a club a club.. Jason fell under pressure of a major.. ESPECIALLY since all his tee shots were in the fairway.. Having hit 4 of 4 in fairways coming down the stretch, only to walk away at 3 over par, is.. well..  unimpressive..

[ThominOH]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

To me that's the key issue here. Dufner had a 5 shot lead over a guy he could have easily assumed would continue to go backwards after a devastating triple bogey. The bottom line is what Bradley did took him completely by surprise. To that end, I hazard to guess that had Bradley only bogied the 15th and then just parred the next 2 holes, Dufner probably thinks and plays in a little differently and holds on for the victory.

Not sure I agree with that.. Remember that Dufner put his tee shot in the water on 15, while Bradley is teeing off on 16..  There was no pressure of the Keegan birdies to come.. Heck, Jason was in the middle of the fairway on 16 with a 4 stroke lead when Keegan made his birdie.. Even after that.. It's now a 3 stroke lead.. No reason to panic.. All Jason had to do was aim middle of green and take your pars and run..

[sharkhark]

Originally Posted by djackson89

I would disagree. He watched KB triple Bogey that hole. He had a huge opportunity in his hands, get through that hole at par and he can ride this out. But then he bogeys, then bogeys again, now it's all mental. I don't really care how hard the last 3 holes are. He had a lead and let it slip. He played them even in the playoff...no reason he coulnd't do it an hour earlier and win.

what he said. the par 3 was the choke. you see that the only guy with a good chance of beating you has 3 jacked over par and you put it in the water? when he was hitting draw shots all day? then fades into drink? choke.

[allin]

I guess my definition of choking is different than some of the othre posters. To me choking is a bad mental choice or missing a routine shot or putt. Bradley's chip leading to his triple is a better example than of Dufner's shots. His overly aggressive putt on the par 3 which led to a bogey was close. So maney golfers struggled on the last 3-4 holes, are we going to call out 1/2 the field? My take is Bradley fought back after a choke and the tough finishing holes bit Dufner as well as many o.thers.

[OnePutts1]

At first thought I would have said no, I don't think Dufner choked, but looking back I'm starting to think he did. A bogey on 15 is understandable, a bogey on 16 from the middle of the fairway makes you wonder. Then he three putts 17. He misses a relatively short birdie putt on the first playoff hole then proceeds to three putt from almost the same exact spot on 17. Yep, I'm considering that a choke. But big props to Keegan for bouncing back after that triple.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

It's tempting to use labels.   Guy plays extraordinary for 3 days and more like a regular guy on the last day and we say he "choked?"  But wasn't his play just getting back to where it usually is?  A reversion to the mean?  The extraordinary becoming ordinary?

With Dufner I do think he choked.  Meaning the pressure got to him.   Anybody watch him walk the fairways on the playoff?   How his left side was so stiff, like he had a sore left arm or broken collarbone?  I didn't get a chance to watch him walk early on -- my TV coverage didn't zoom in on Duffner's walk before the final holes -- but he sure seemed tense.  You could imagine him saying to himself "Here I am nearing middle age and this might be my only chance to win a big un."

Sure Bradley was under pressure too, but I don't think he'd shed tears if he finished second.  1st, 2nd, either would be wonderful to him.

I was pulling for Dufner, if for no other reason than having a winner you could call "Duf."

[keygolf]

Might be worth a late input to ask, "What if it was not choking or bad judgment or sudden pressure, and nothing more than serious energy loss and inability on that basis to finish strong (Jason)?"

We studied scorecards from several clubs in back in the 90s and found that, on average, the holes 15 thru 18 were the worst scored holes across all levels of playing ability. After seeing that, we also found that energy loss should be added to the cause and effect of how games regularly conclude. Could be any of what has been noted here, plus the energy factor, which recent research has shown to be a much greater issue than was once thought - and this is not just physical energy, but the whole bag - mental, physical, emotional, and intellectual (cognative).

And none of that touches what appears as (arguably) the most vital moment in the game that accompanies one's ability to manage the instantaneous pressure that always accompanies golf-shot execution. You will find it very difficult to find anyone who knows how to manage that one.

[TheGeekGolfer]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

I could birdie a hole, then play it again immediately and I might double bogey it.

Hitting the same shots in golf over and over is impossible - that's why it's so hard.

Even for a professional

A little off-topic, but in response to this post.  Did anyone else see the playoff at the Greenbrier Classic?  Scott Stallings birdied #18 after stuffing it to about 5 ft.  The playoff was on the par-3 18th, also.  I swear, in the playoff, all three players each hit their respective tee shots to within a foot of where they did in regulation .  I was stunned by this.  Scott's still being the closest and he made it again.

[makaveli]

Of course he did!

[Bunkerboy1]

My belief is that only the player knows if he choked.  I think we throw around the word "choke" far too often.  We are all human.   We can hit a bad shot at any time.

[Littlebigman]

Originally Posted by djackson89

I would disagree. He watched KB triple Bogey that hole. He had a huge opportunity in his hands, get through that hole at par and he can ride this out. But then he bogeys, then bogeys again, now it's all mental. I don't really care how hard the last 3 holes are. He had a lead and let it slip. He played them even in the playoff...no reason he coulnd't do it an hour earlier and win.

I'd like to see you standing on the 15th hole at ACC looking at a 265 par 3 with a significant pond to the right of the green where if I am correct, most right handed players are more likely to miss right than left, and thats exactly what Keegan and Jason did.  +3 in regulation isn't that bad considering there were a shit ton of other players that went +3 on the 18th hole alone, it just happened to be at the most important point of the tournament.  Keegan Bradley hit one of the most underrated and untalked about putts in the PGA Championship on the 16th I believe the bounce back from his triple bogey, probably like a 40 foot putt that if he misses goes 8-10 passed the hole.  Great tournament to both, cant beat someone up for taking 2nd at the toughest tournament of the year.

[makaveli]

Dude, if Dufner didn't choke, then neither Van de Velde did at Carnoustie, it was just a poor and wet management of the last hole! :D

[shortironsniper]

The tournament was one of the best I have ever watched. That said, if not for a 60-some foot putt Dufner would have won. If not for 3 straight Bogeys Dufner would have won. I guess thats what makes golf such a great game and challenge, because I agree with almost every response. Too bad for Jason Dufner What-If's aren't a part of history. I have to say I was pulling for him after the first few holes Sunday. The guy has Tempo. Even if he has never won or never comes close again.

[Littlebigman]

Ok, the difference between Van de Velde and Dufner is during the whole tournament the last 4 holes at ACC were playing harder than almost any other PGA Championship to date, and it just so happened the Dufner hit a very bad shot into the water on the 15th, were he still only bogeyed.  Van de Velde played the worst final hole ever probably, there is no need to hit a driver, there is no need to go for the green, there is no need to take off your shoes and get in the water, and it just so happened that the guy who expected to take 2nd holed a nice sand shot in a very clutch moment, Keegan Bradley played the last 4 holes better than most did all tournament on the last and toughest day.  You can say Dufner choked, I say Keegan Bradley played out of his mind while Jason Dufner showed that he was human like that rest of us.

[makaveli]

Sorry Littlebigman I totally forgot about your answer! :)

Even Schwarzel played the best final 4 holes in Augusta but nobody chocked there. At the PGA instead we have one chocker which is Dufner imho.

If you wanna summarize:

Van De Velde @ Open: Huge choke

Rory @ US Open: Big Choke

Dufner @ PGA: Choke

What do you think? :D

Sure we are human, even Tiger is, and as humans we sometimes choke, not that big deal admitting it!

Originally Posted by Littlebigman

Ok, the difference between Van de Velde and Dufner is during the whole tournament the last 4 holes at ACC were playing harder than almost any other PGA Championship to date, and it just so happened the Dufner hit a very bad shot into the water on the 15th, were he still only bogeyed.  Van de Velde played the worst final hole ever probably, there is no need to hit a driver, there is no need to go for the green, there is no need to take off your shoes and get in the water, and it just so happened that the guy who expected to take 2nd holed a nice sand shot in a very clutch moment, Keegan Bradley played the last 4 holes better than most did all tournament on the last and toughest day.  You can say Dufner choked, I say Keegan Bradley played out of his mind while Jason Dufner showed that he was human like that rest of us.