When "Breaking 80" is not always "Breaking 80"

[Roblar]

First off, thanks to everyone for the replies, comments, opinions, and suggestions so far.  It seems like the general consensus is that "breaking 80 is breaking 80", but that not every "broken 80" is equal.

I was going to do a 'multi-quote' reply, but that got too long in a hurry --- I think I'll break my replies into a few separate posts and snip out / summarize some of the quotes for readability.

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Yep exactly what I mean. It seems that a lot of people simply think "Long course = difficult course" which is complete crap.

Of course slope and rating matter but 5300 yards from the normal Mens Tee's was a joke by 1970's standards let alone todays standards. At some point the course is so short they have to resort to something hokey if they want to make the course difficult. Why not just have players putt up a ramp into the clowns mouth and be done with it at that point?

Even 5,800 yards is pushing it IMO, but I am sure there are exceptions. YMMV.

[Grumpter]

Quote:

Breaking 80 is still breaking 80

I never said it wasn't. As I opined in my original reply the OP should be happy about breaking 80 even on a 5200 yard course.

[Doctorfro]

Length does make some difference.  If you're hitting pitching wedges into the greens instead of 5 irons.....that's a big difference.  But you are right in that you still have to execute the shots no matter what length.

[Roblar]

Some rapid-fire replies:

Originally Posted by Grumpter

...snip...Maybe their White tee's are their senior tee's?..snip...

Yeah, the Whites are the Senior Tees. Four sets: Red (closest)--White--Blue--Black (furthest).

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Review of Westwood Park Golf in Norman, OK (I assume that is the course OP is referencing)

It is, what it is: a no frill's, no chill's, good value kind of track! Great place to play if you are short on coin and confidence. Management is helpful and accommodating. The course is moderate to well maintained. A very high recommendation for beginning golfers or high handicappers (this course is a confidence booster). A very high recommendation for those in seek of a good value. A below average recommendation for those who want a creative and testing round of golf.

Yup. It is an excellent course for a relative newb like myself (just over two years playing). I would say that the course is quite well maintained, but the fairways are mostly wide, the rough is not rough, and the greens are not small and don't undulate too much (I wouldn't say they're flat, but they are not like some of the greens I've seen elsewhere).  And it's relatively short from the Whites!

Originally Posted by TN94z

1)  You did nothing to think you were a cheat unless you actually cheated by not counting every stroke.

...snip...

4)  I absolutely cared about breaking 80.  It's a good goal to shoot for and when you reach that goal, it's very satisfying.  My goals changed after I could break 80 to getting to scratch.  ...snip...

From the moment I started, I've always been pretty fastidious about keeping a true score. I figured it would be the only way to know how or if I was improving, so yeah, I definitely count every stroke and penalty.  ...and I like your point about setting a goal, meeting it, and then setting a new goal.  And that segues into mdl's comment:

Quote:

You broke 80 on an easy course from ridiculously short tees.  Of course that's less satisfying than if you did it on a less easy course from real tees.  But it's still an accomplishment.  Maybe now you should play the back tees at that course?

I played again on Monday, but I played from the Blue Tees (one further back) and managed an 81.  ....it should have been at least and 83 -- I had a 65' and a 30' putt drop for me!

When I took up the game, I played from the Blue or Black Tees. After a few months, I moved up to the White Tees. I figured there was no need to be 'macho' and play the Blues or Blacks if I couldn't even break 80 from the Whites.  Well... now I'm playing the Blues. When (-positive thinking here-) I break 80 from the Blues, I'll move to the Blacks. (And when I win the lottery, I'll play a pricier, more challenging course...)

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Roblar

"Breaking 80" is a big deal for a lot of golfers, but it seems to me that some 79s (or lower) are vastly different from others.

I just broke 80 for the first time a bit over a week ago.  I shot 79 on the course I almost always play, Westwood Golf Course, and I was thrilled.  A few days later though, and I'm left wondering if I'm a bit of a cheat. Here's why:

2. I played from the White tees - not the Blues, not the Blacks.  That reduces the yardage to 5265

I was getting ready to say nothing matters....you shot a 79!!!!

But seriously?.... a 5200 yds par 72?  That equates to short par3s........300yd par 4s and 400yd par 5s............I'd hold off on the celebration for now.   I'm happy that you shot your first 79 and I give you props, but that's not a real golf course.   I've been in your situation before when I was a 10HC many years ago and shot a 69 on a similar course.   I couldn't bring myself to count it as a "real score" ....because I embraced reality.

You with me pard????  At the very minimum........I wouldn't celebrate just yet until you do it at 6,000+yds at a very minimum.

with that said, congrats on the 79...LOL...sorry, hate to bust your chops and all....but 5200yds?.....c'mon man!!!  LOL

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Grumpter

I was gonna say you are overanalyzing it but... 5200 yards from the whites????? Really? Maybe their White tee's are their senior tee's?

I was thinking those tees were 100yds deep in the fairways.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

Stuart Appleby's 59 was on a par 70, but it still goes down as a 59 in the record books

Yea...par isn't the end-all...........length means a lot.  Stuart didn't play a 5200yd course.  He played a par 72 course converted to 70 for the pros.  Probably not a good example to use in this case.

[Roblar]

A lot of people wrote something like TN94z:

Originally Posted by TN94z

Breaking 80 is still breaking 80

Originally Posted by Gresh24

I "broke 80" (79) on a par 71 course with a 66.4 rating and 102 slope (5,861 yrds.).  Not the most difficult course, but I still count it

I kind of like how Dr_Fu_Manchu put it:

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

Stuart Appleby's 59 was on a par 70, but it still goes down as a 59 in the record books

Point taken Doc!

And tmf9 commented on the fairways missed thing.

Originally Posted by tmf9

Don't sell yourself short man breaking 80 is breaking 80.  So what it was a par 70, maybe you would have birdied the extra par 5's if it were a par 72.  As far as hitting only 3 fairways, i've shot 70 before hitting only 2 fairways, and Tigers broken 70 many times only hitting a couple fairways so don't worry about that.

I still kind of feel like a player who breaks 80 should be the sort of player who won't miss too many fairways.  It's part of what makes my 79 feel like a fraud.

The length thing also seems like a real issue.  I know I wouldn't claim breaking 80 on a par-68, but I hadn't really put too much thought into a minimum length thing.  I don't think anyone thinks that distance is the sole factor or even, necessarily, the most important factor, but if I feel that a par-68 doesn't count, then I get someone who thinks that there is a certain minimum distance for it to count too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy

For me breaking 80 isn't breaking 80 if it's less than Par 70 or less than 6,000 yards.

I'm guessing that most people would agree about the par-70 thing, but the minimum yardage is probably much more difficult to pin down.  There are too many other factors that can make a course 'difficult'.

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Depends on course rating and slope.

That 5,781 length course could be rated at 73 with a Slope of 135

You could go play a 6,600 yard course rated at 69 with a slope of 110

Or you could try what I did and play a 7300 yard, 74.4 rating, 142 slope course and realize what it would take to shoot under 80 on that course ( shot 87 )

Course rating and slope are FAR more important to worry about than length.

[rustyredcab]

My regular group moved up a set of tees this year from nearly 6600 yards to 6100 yards and a drop of almost 2 in course rating. My second round out at the new tees was in the 90's (not good for me). You still have to putt the ball in the hole. Trouble is still trouble. BUT, shorter helps. My scores (not always my differentials for handicap purposes), are lower once I got used to the new yardages for trouble. AND I have discovered that going low becomes a transferable habit. I have broken 80 moving back to the 6600 yard tees and on other courses were my previous low may have been 85. I used to save every ball from my sub-80 rounds. I don't anymore because it is not so rare. 10 or my last 20 rounds were under 80. For me, that is a big change that started when I played a little shorter and created the habit.

So, breaking 80 is breaking 80. May it become a habit for you.

[Roblar]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

...snip...

a 5200 yds par 72?  That equates to short par3s........300yd par 4s and 400yd par 5s............

...snip...

Yeah, pretty much.  Not 'tees in the fairways', but I get your point.

Par 3s:  107, 119, 134, 162, 138, 165

Par 4s:  260, 404, 304, 342, 350, 353, 304, 346

Par 5s:  423, 419, 474, 461

My drives are usually around 220, so the par-5s are still long enough to force me into three shots (though I can be pretty close to the green on the third).

The par 4s... I get to use a nice selection of irons on my second shot.  The two shortest par-4s both have trees down one side and water on the other, so a lot of the time I'll hit 5-iron off the tee just to *try* to avoid trouble.  ...but yeah, they're short.

The par-3s actually challenge me quite a bit - even the shortest of them.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Roblar

Yeah, pretty much.  Not 'tees in the fairways', but I get your point.

Par 3s:  107, 119, 134, 162, 138, 165

Par 4s:  260, 404, 304, 342, 350, 353, 304, 346

Par 5s:  423, 419, 474, 461

My drives are usually around 220, so the par-5s are still long enough to force me into three shots (though I can be pretty close to the green on the third).

I'd recommend you stick to tees 6,000+................you obviously have some game.  Good job!!!!  But yea....****** is necessary.

[Golf'nBiker]

Congrats, man.  Keep it up!  Broke 80 today for the 3d time in my life. If it weren't for the eagle and a birdie, I would have been at my regular 82-85..so did I really break 80 because the two good holes are usually a par or bogey hole??  HELL YES!!

[jamo]

As long as you don't brag to all of your 100s-shooter friends and make a big deal out of it, 79 is still less than 80. You probably shouldn't introduce yourself as a "70s shooter" to everyone either.

[mirv]

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

Stuart Appleby's 59 was on a par 70, but it still goes down as a 59 in the record books

this pretty much sums up how i feel about it.  i do kind of get what the OP is saying, though - i feel like i have more leniency somehow when i'm on a par 70, like i've got 2 free strokes to play with and still be under 80.  i never quite feel so jazzed saying i shot 74 on a par 70 as i do about 74 on a par 72, but yeah... under 80 is under 80.  one way you might get around this is, when someone asks you what you shot, don't give them a number, and instead say "9 over par for the round" or whatever.  that way you don't have to hem and haw and clarify anything like "well, y'know, i'm a 70s shooter on par 70 courses... still an 80s shooter on par 72s."

[Roblar]

OK.  I'm reviving this thread because I broke 80 again.  ...under less than ideal circumstances AGAIN. Here's the deal:

Westwood is aerating the greens this week, and today they were working on the front nine, so only the back nine was open for play. (The back nine greens have not been aerated yet -- that's tomorrow.)  I played the back nine twice, and shot a 76 (37 + 39).  <---My best score yet!

Last time, I broke 80 from the whites (the senior tees), so I played from the blue tees this time. The back nine from the blue tees is supposed to play to 3058 yds, so 6116 yds total.

On the other hand, I didn't play 18 holes.... I just played 9 holes twice.

Kosher?

I think the USGA will let you put two 9-hole scores together for handicap purposes, but doesn't that sort of assume that the 9-holes were on different days?  I would think that different days would have different pin placements, too --- making the holes at least a bit distinct.  But for me, I just played the same 9 holes, same nine pin placements, same weather (roughly - this is Oklahoma, so the wind kept getting stronger), same everything.

So is this another case of:

New score under 80.  New asterisk by the 'accomplishment'?

Looking forward to your opinions.

[SpannersReady]

depends, On my course I usually shoot at least 5 stokes higher on the out 9 than the IN 9. whatever order I play them in. So if I played the back 9 twice I would score my lowest score easily.

So If the forum lets your score stand then I'm doing it as well!!!

[pbyrne02]

Breaking 80 is breaking 80 period.  Its a bar that we set, plan and simple.  The best way to look at is that you played extremely well and that your score is a personal goal.  I have not broken 80.  I have had four 80's and last week had another.  I tripled a par 3 17th hole by double kissing a wedge green side.  Took the two strokes and missed the put, but I played great all day.  Grinded out an 80 and was really proud.

Be proud of your round and strive to do it regularly.