Tiger's Sunday Roar

[iacas]

I think he's working on getting it back. He won The Masters with his B game, and only Chris DiMarco stopped it from being a blowout, after all. The next nearest guy was seven back.

[six_overpar]

I think a good answer to that question would be yes, but it is fading.
Here is my theory on Tiger Woods:

You don't Own Golf, you just rent it.

Every golfer has a couple seasons of brilliance. Bear in mind that brilliance is subjective to the golfer and his ability. Tiger Woods brilliance is much different from my brilliance or yours. My brilliance came last summer when I couldn't miss a par putt no matter what the length, if I didn't sink my birdie putt. I played the best golf I have ever played in the 19 years I have known how to play the game. I took my handicap from a 15 to a 6. Tiger Woods brilliance happened right out of the shoot. The gates opened and he took off, media blitz and all. Hell, when Tiger Woods got raked #1 the first time he had not played for three years (which is how far they look back when they do the ranking). I guess not that it mattered because when he did get to his third year he was still kicking ass. I think that Tiger started at the top of his game rather that playing a couple of seasons in the middle of the pack getting used to tour life and then taking off.

People say he hit a slump, I say he just lost some of that brilliance. He showed the golf world that he was like every other pro golfer, a mere mortal that has good rounds and bad rounds. I don't think he will beat Jack Nickalus' record in the majors. I think there are going to be outside influences that will knock him down a notch or two, married life (a trophy wife like Elin is going to demand some attention), one day he will probably have kids, one day he may wake up like David Duval and say this is it? And there has got to be an injury somewhere down the line. Unless he sold his soul to the devil himself, Tigers roar is fading.

Every dog has his day. It gets annoying to hear the talking heads on the Golf Channel asking is Tiger Woods back every time he wins a tournament or has a top ten finish. His record speaks for itself but people need to remember that a record is a history of what he has done not necessarily a precursor to what he will do or can continue to do.

Personally I think Tiger is an arrogant, egotistical jerk that couldn’t handle his departure from complete brilliance. There is nothing wrong with confidence, but there is a limit. He has been good for the game, it has made players hit the gym and take their games more seriously. It has also made for some good TV as well.

People say Tiger Woods is the next Jack Nickalus. I wonder who the next Tiger Woods will be. Ryan Moore?

[iacas]

Personally I think Tiger is an arrogant, egotistical jerk that couldn’t handle his departure from complete brilliance. There is nothing wrong with confidence, but there is a limit. He has been good for the game, it has made players hit the gym and take their games more seriously. It has also made for some good TV as well.

I think you should have prefaced your argument with that. You've conveniently left out his two swing changes, ignored the fact that he didn't really go on a tear until late 1999, 2000-2002 (he came on tour in 1996 and world golf ranking points go back two years, not three), and some other facts (like that he's married now and just won a major, that Jack Nicklaus said he found that having kids helped his game, etc.). He's also already had an injury to his knee. His new swing is geared towards preventing injury.

[six_overpar]

I didn't "conveniently" leave out his swing changes. I don’t think a swing change should be that much of a factor. Personally, I wouldn’t play with a new swing change until I had it down perfectly. I think that was an excuse Tiger and the rest of the media were using to have a reason why golf’s superstar was not playing up to his record. If Tiger is such a Golf God, why has the transition been so difficult? If the guy can bounce a ball on his club face then hit it while in the air a couple of swing changes shouldn't be that tremendous of a feat, especially with his ability.

You are right. The world golf ranking does go back two years, I should have researched that before I posted. I made a mistake and I am man enough to admit it. However, those long months of playing poorly are catching up to him now and if he doesn’t get his act together he will be left in the dust by the rest of the Big Four.

“Jack Nicklaus said he found that having kids helped his game.” But will having kids help Tigers game. Try to remember that when Jack was rearing his family it was a different time. Wives were more submissive to their husbands; they were not as high maintenance as the women of today. Kids did as they were told and the wives took care of them. This is the 21st century and things have changed drastically since the Golden Bears golden days.

It is smart that Tigers new swing is geared toward preventing injury. Can he gear it to prevent more loses? I wasn't necessarily referring to swing or golf related injury. Look at Retief Goosen and the jet ski last summer. Tiger could slip in the shower, get his hand slammed in a car door, anything could happen.

Regardless of when he came on tour or when he started going on a tear, he has been built up by the media as The Golfing God. That is great marketing and it has paid off millions for him. However, my opinion is that he is a regular tour pro that had his 15 minutes early on in his career. I truly believe he will be a wash up by 35. Of course by then the next Tiger Woods may have come on to the scene.

Also remember that this is just my opinion. You can agree or disagree completely or to varying degrees. Facts are wrong or right not opinions. Opinions are also like corn holes, most people have’ em and most of them stink.

[iacas]

I didn't "conveniently" leave out his swing changes. I don’t think a swing change should be that much of a factor.

At this moment, I now realize you don't understand competitive golf.

Oh, oops, slipped into Danielle mode for a second there.

Personally, I wouldn’t play with a new swing change until I had it down perfectly. I think that was an excuse Tiger and the rest of the media were using to have a reason why golf’s superstar was not playing up to his record.

Uhhh... riiiiiiight. If you look at his swing, you can see a change. A swing change is hella hard and takes a long time. Tiger was practically winning (finishing in the top 10) while playing absolutely horrid golf. He nearly won the NEC missing fairways by 100 yards. Swing changes are tough. You can't take a year off.

If Tiger is such a Golf God, why has the transition been so difficult? If the guy can bounce a ball on his club face then hit it while in the air a couple of swing changes shouldn't be that tremendous of a feat, especially with his ability.

Because the transition is hard.

I can hit a ball on my wedge and then swing and hit it. Doesn't mean that translates into world-beating golf.

You are right. The world golf ranking does go back two years, I should have researched that before I posted. I made a mistake and I am man enough to admit it. However, those long months of playing poorly are catching up to him now and if he doesn’t get his act together he will be left in the dust by the rest of the Big Four.

His worst weeks were still better than 99% of the pros good weeks. How many cuts has he made? What's the next closest? How many top 10s did he bank last year?

Tiger could slip in the shower, get his hand slammed in a car door, anything could happen.

Yes, that could happen. And it'd knock him out for a year or so at the most.

However, my opinion is that he is a regular tour pro that had his 15 minutes early on in his career.

That's a pretty silly opinion. Yes, everyone's got it, but your opinion doesn't jive with facts. He's tied with Ben Hogan and Gary Player with 9 major victories. He has 43 PGA Tour victories. His winning percentage is somewhere north of 20%, I believe.

That's not "a regular tour pro" by any stretch of the imagination, opinion or otherwise.

I truly believe he will be a wash up by 35.

I'll take that bet! I say he wins at least two majors from his 35th birthday on. Unless he's already surpassed Jack's 18. Then he might have retired.

[six_overpar]

You are looking at his record. His past performances and stats.

Judging by his past one could say that he will continue to play like he has in the past. I am under the impression that he is fading or will fade in the near future. There are too many variables in golf. It is not math or science, there is seldom an exact anser of method. Why do you think people can make or lose a helluva lot of money gambling on golf? The odds are always stacked against the player.

I don't care if my opinion jives with anything. It doesn't have to. You can agree with me or not, either way I am not going to lose any sleep over what you think.

[iacas]

He's won three times this year, including 100% of the majors. I don't think I'm looking too far into the past...

At some point, it's not so much about agreeing as it is living in the real world, looking at real facts, and making sensible opinions based on that, not a generic distaste for the man or the player.

[Thrash13]

Well, Tiger certainly isn't washed up by any means, and I don't think he will be any time soon. He is way too competitive to go that path.

My main argument is about the actual "Sunday Roar". I think Tiger will pass Jack Nicklaus on the majors number, and I think he will play until he is 40 at least.

I just don't think his Sunday Roar is present now like it once was. I know DiMarco played a hell of a round, but that wouldn't have phased Tiger 2 or 3 years ago. He would have just posted an even better round.

Guys aren't scared to play with Tiger in the final group anymore, at least not near as bad. That is my main point in all this mess. And that was the main point of "Thrash Talk" this week.

This argument has gotten a little wild, so I just wanted to clarify my thoughts. They aren't nearly as broad as the previous opinions in this topic, mine just focuses on the specific Sunday matchups with Tiger.

[iacas]

Tiger won with his B- game Sunday. The roar may come back, but let him use his A game.

And hey, Tiger's "Sunday Roar" came on the final 9 holes of the third round. What happened then? He surged, DiMarco crumbled. He had his A game in the morning.

[pmclamb]

how about this...Tiger may not have "roared" on sunday, yet he still won the tournament, and that's all that matters. He roared in the second and third round and then played well enough to win. I don't see any point in arguing over a man no one really knows personally. None of you actually know if he's going to be considered better or worse than he used to be, and no one knows when he will retire or how many more swing changes he will have. For all I know, he might have 4 more coaches with a new swing each time.

[Thrash13]

how about this...Tiger may not have "roared" on sunday, yet he still won the tournament, and that's all that matters. He roared in the second and third round and then played well enough to win. I don't see any point in arguing over a man no one really knows personally. None of you actually know if he's going to be considered better or worse than he used to be, and no one knows when he will retire or how many more swing changes he will have. For all I know, he might have 4 more coaches with a new swing each time.

True, but the point of a message board is to speak opinions. This forum wouldn't even be here if people didn't have things to say. It's the fan's duty to act like we know what's going to happen. It's just the way humans are, and I am no different.

So I'll definitely keep speaking my mind on Tiger and many other topics because it's what I do.

[muskegman]

Its really up to Tiger to re-establish himself as the destroyer of golf courses. We all know what he has been capable of in the past and his Augusta win proves that he's still got game. He's still got game regardless. He's got to own this new swing of his to the point that he regains some lost confidence. He's started 2005 in impressive fashion... people are looking for something very special to prove that he is the "Tiger of old." There is no question that he's still the best in the business regardless.

[Jeepthrills]

After two major swing changes, a major life change (Elin) and what sounds like a father who is in very bad health, I would say that three wins, including a Major, by mid April is not washed up. Last I checked the endorsement deals never made a crucial par put and the promoters didn't chip in on 16 for him. This guy may have more money than we could all spend (good for him), and he may not be our drinking buddy (he doesn't have to), but he can play golf better than everyone else in the world. He managed to survive a major slump (by Tiger standards) and still get back to number one in the world. We may not see anymore 10 shot wins, but that is more a product of the other guys raising their games, not him falling apart. As far as the big four leaving him in the dust, if they couldn't do it in the last two years, I doubt they will anytime soon. He is the youngest, strongest and toughest of them all. I'm with Iacas. He will win majors after 35. His work outs will allow him to stay in competetive shape for a long time. They do have him in one area. The other four have tied him in Majors won. He has nine and so do they (combined).