Something Corporate

[Domenic]

With the threads about the RBZ Driver I was wondering about the R11S. CLaims are that it's just marketing crap. It appears that the RBZ will be the ""quality" this year. What do you think about it. Is it just SOmething Corporate?

[jamo]

I don't think I know what you mean. I assume the two drivers will be made at the same factories, so I doubt one will be of higher quality. The R11S and R11 are almost the same, so I'd imagine it's tough to advertise. Rocketballz is not only a snappier (and different) name, but it at least looks substantially different from the Burner SuperFast 2.0, plus the RBZ has the FCT while the Burners never did.

[Domenic]

I just mean there's always one "good" line and one kind of "filler" line. I was wondering if the R11s in ur guys' opinions was just like a filler, whereas RBZ had the tech on its side.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Domenic

I just mean there's always one "good" line and one kind of "filler" line. I was wondering if the R11s in ur guys' opinions was just like a filler, whereas RBZ had the tech on its side.

For example?

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Domenic

I just mean there's always one "good" line and one kind of "filler" line. I was wondering if the R11s in ur guys' opinions was just like a filler, whereas RBZ had the tech on its side.

Always? I can't think of one one company that has a "filler" line.

Please give us an example.

They are all of the same quality but they are aimed at different markets.

The RBZ an R11s are aimed at different markets.

[LuciusWooding]

I know what he's saying; the R11 and burner lines are an example; the burner clubs are a bit rubbish as far as control, they go all out for distance and have crazy lofts and excessive length at a lower price, but the R11 has the adjustability and is aimed at better players.

To be honest though, both lines contain filler; the R11s is a high handicapper's version of the R11, and the RBZ driver is basically filler; the rescues and FWs have the real innovation. TM is notorious for releasing clubs every few months, so obviously they don't really improve much every time.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I know what he's saying; the R11 and burner lines are an example; the burner clubs are a bit rubbish as far as control, they go all out for distance and have crazy lofts and excessive length at a lower price, but the R11 has the adjustability and is aimed at better players.

What a load of claptrap. There are lots of tour players playing the Burner.

To say that they are "rubbish" is just plain silly.

And yes....we've all heard the jokes/criticisms/ comments about TM releasing new clubs frequently. Doesn't make them "rubbish".

And... there are no drivers on the market that offer "excessive length".

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by Shorty

For example?

At least one that's advertised more and played more. For example Diablo Edge was filler for the Razr line

[LuciusWooding]

I was referring to excessive shaft length. Does 46.5" fit anyone under 6'8"? Jason Day is the only one playing the burner driver in '11 I can think of, and he's not exactly the player I'd pick to sell drivers.

The burner line is pretty solidly aimed at high cappers who want distance. It also is clearly their 2nd tier, or else they wouldn't sell it for 100$ less than the R11.

[jamo]

At least one that's advertised more and played more. For example Diablo Edge was filler for the Razr line

The Diablo Edge was two years ago and the RAZR branding didn't come to their drivers until last year. Unless you've suddenly switched to irons. Assuming you meant the Diablo Octane, I fully disagree. They both had forged composite, and while it's true Callaway more aggressively marketed the RAZR Hawk line, the Diablo had no less technology. They were meant for different people and sold at different price points. If you meant the Diablo Edge, that was sold at the same time at the FT-iZ and FT-9, both which had more technology (Fusion, triangle shape, composite) and were more aggressively marketed. The Diablo Edge was cheaper, and meant for higher-handicap golfers who sliced the crap out of the ball.

[moparman426]

The burner line is pretty solidly aimed at high cappers who want distance. It also is clearly their 2nd tier, or else they wouldn't sell it for 100$ less than the R11.

More crap. Tour BURNER TP drivers were definitely not aimed at high handicapped players. Poll results seem to be on the money as well.

[bplewis24]

lol @ the poll results.

It's almost a non-sequitur as far as questions go: tons of golf equipment is hugely reliant on how it is marketed.  In a sense, they all have claims that are pure "marketing crap."  Some less so than others, but if you believe that you're going to hit a rocket ballz whatever 3 wood 290 yards because Sean O'Hair does, then they got you right where they want you ;-)

Brandon

[tristanhilton85]

From a technology standpoint you'd have to say that the R11s has more than the RBZ.  Both have the FCT, while the R11s also has the ASP and MWT.

From a quality standpoint, I really doubt that one is made to a lesser quality.

Now, I kind of see what the OP is saying... when the R11 came out last year, some of the people who wanted it didn't want to pay the $400 so they saved a $100 and got the Burner 2.0.

Honestly though, they are aimed at different groups.  The bottom line is that many companies have two (or often times more) lines of drivers at the same time... Look at PING with the I, G, and K series or Callaway with their different versions of the RAZR or Diablo.  Sometimes they are aimed at different levels of golfers based on handicaps (like the PINGs) and sometimes they are based more on certain performance characteristics, which is what I think Taylormade is doing going after both the "regular" driver market with the R11 and the ultralight with RBZ/Burner.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by moparman426

More crap. Tour BURNER TP drivers were definitely not aimed at high handicapped players.

Poll results seem to be on the money as well.

The TP designation means nothing, really. They offer lower lofts and an array of shafts, and cost 100$ extra. They might make it 1* open, but adjustability makes that obsolete now, and it's not a technology change. The R11 is considered a "better player's" driver, and it came in a TP version too. The lower loft and higher price are the only real difference.

A number of brands do target different player types with different product lines; I wouldn't say there's a huge difference in build quality, but you didn't see the adjustability of the R11 on the Burner line. Even with the RBZ line, they don't offer full adjustability. This is because the RBZ and burner were a bit less of a premium club; they were more affordable.

I'm also glad to see you responding to my posts again.

[cruzthepug]

It all about market share. All the major players want their equipment in the hands of the most players and they start with tour players. While watching TV each weekend viewers can see what equipment all the top players are using, and if you like that player you gravitate toward that brand. This is where the multi line branding starts. Average Joe arrives at the golf shop to buy the new R11s (in this case, could be any major brand) gives it a try and whips out the credit card and lays down the $400 for the new driver. Now there are probably as many if not more that see the price tag and look for something else and since their favorite player uses TM then the RBZ (or Burner line) is the next choice. When it comes down to it, it's all about pricing, that's why you may see Callaway with 3 or even 4 driver models is stores at the same time. One to fit each golfers budget, and as far as technology, they probably all benefit from the R&D; spent on the companies tour club.

With all that said, to the OP, NO, I don't think the RBZ is the new driving force for TM. It's just the Burner line with a new look and the ability for adjustments. So far, I'm not seeing the big boost in driving distance.

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I was referring to excessive shaft length. Does 46.5" fit anyone under 6'8"? Jason Day is the only one playing the burner driver in '11 I can think of, and he's not exactly the player I'd pick to sell drivers.

The burner line is pretty solidly aimed at high cappers who want distance. It also is clearly their 2nd tier, or else they wouldn't sell it for 100$ less than the R11.

Sort of what I'm trying to get at. You get what you pay for. The Octane only had some composite in the crown, whereas the Razr's full body construction. And cruzthepug thanks for your results with the RBZ

oh, and I'm glad the poll results were a bifg hit.