Are you getting the most out of your lessons?

[HeadGolfool]

I have spent a lot of time observing golfers at the clubs I have belonged to over the years and I see a very similar pattern in regards to golfers and golf lessons.  HERE'S WHAT I MEAN:

At my current club we have like 5 different pros that work the shop and give lessons and we also have an LPGA Pro that does nothing but give lessons at a designated station on the range.  I have watched with amusement as numerous golfers have taken lessons from as many as 4 of these different pros all with-in a 4-5 month period.  Most have shown no real improvement in their games and I’m certainly not blaming it on the Pros.

Here’s what’s lacking:

Golfers don’t typically make a plan with the Pro and map out a program and what their expectations will be.  In today's “got to have it now society” most people don’t have the time, patience or commitment to make a swing change work.  Sure you may see some initial improvement with some lesson, but it will be just a matter of time before you hit some bad shots and abandon what you were working on.  Time to find another teacher.   When PGA pros make swing changes it takes months before they feel comfortable and they hit 1,000 balls a day.

I hear golfers say “what they were teaching me just didn't’t feel comfortable”  Your current swing may feel comfortable but you’re shooting “95”.  So many golfers say you want to get better but aren't’t willing to do what it takes.

Here’s what I mean:

I have friends and friends of friends that are “95-100” shooters that say they want to shoot better scores.  I show them how to make adjustments to the score on the card to meet their skill level, show them how to hit to zones and avoid trouble, change their mindset from giving up their desire for distance in favor of doing whatever it takes to score and they will all shoot the best rounds of their golfing life.  It really is easy to improve, but it’s not as glamorous as hitting an occasional long drive or a miraculous shot out of trouble.  So even after shooting some of their best scores ever, they will abandon this playing style and go back to their inconsistent go for broke, long ball game.  So I hear a lot of mixed messages from golfer when they say they would do anything to shoot better golf.

I’m not against lessons, but lessons without a plan, a commitment to time, patience and knowing that you may get worse before you see real improvement is a waste of time and money.  Most golfers I observe are not willing to make this commitment.  If you’re not, you would find it far easier and faster to improve your scores with the swing you have by learning the principles I talk about in the previous paragraph.

If you really want to accelerate your scoring improvement take lessons for specific areas of the game like chipping, putting and one of my favorites: a punch shot.  A punch shot is easy to learn, easy to hit and a safe shot that can be used in so many situations that can save you strokes.

Hope this is useful.

Richard

[RPMPIRE]

I think it's funny how people complain about how they feel uncomfortable with what they just learned from a lesson. The golf swing, in general, is a motion the body is not used to doing, especially when you first start learning. When I first started playing golf, learning the right grip already felt "uncomfortable" but it's mostly because the body is not used to it.

Originally Posted by HeadGolfool

I hear golfers say “what they were teaching me just didn't’t feel comfortable”  Your current swing may feel comfortable but you’re shooting “95”.  So many golfers say you want to get better but aren't’t willing to do what it takes.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by HeadGolfool

I have watched with amusement as numerous golfers have taken lessons from as many as 4 of these different pros all with-in a 4-5 month period.  Most have shown no real improvement in their games and I’m certainly not blaming it on the Pros.

I am. 95% of golf pros flat out stink.

Originally Posted by HeadGolfool

I have friends and friends of friends that are “95-100” shooters that say they want to shoot better scores.  I show them how to make adjustments to the score on the card to meet their skill level, show them how to hit to zones and avoid trouble, change their mindset from giving up their desire for distance in favor of doing whatever it takes to score and they will all shoot the best rounds of their golfing life.  It really is easy to improve, but it’s not as glamorous as hitting an occasional long drive or a miraculous shot out of trouble.  So even after shooting some of their best scores ever, they will abandon this playing style and go back to their inconsistent go for broke, long ball game.  So I hear a lot of mixed messages from golfer when they say they would do anything to shoot better golf.

For those who are unaware, and correct me if I'm wrong HGF, but you basically tell people to hit 135-yard shots, or 150-yard shots, or something like that, and then two-putt. Doing so has people shooting 85 because they, ostensibly, never get into trouble and so on. Then when they get to the green they're simply asked to two-putt, or occasionally make a putt. Yawn.

The problem with that way of thinking is that they're never going to improve if they never practice or work on their driver, their 4-iron, their hybrid, etc. Yay, they hit their 7-iron up the fairway and around the course. They shoot 85. Yawn.

The second problem? Most guys shooting 95 can't consistently hit a club - even a 7I - 135 yards and up the middle. They'll fat them. Thin them. Shank 'em. Slice 'em. Pull 'em. You name it. The odds of that happening may decrease because you're swinging the same club so often you can get in a bit of a groove, but over 18 holes you're gonna see some skanky shots.

The third problem? It's boring. You'll lose skins games every time because you'll NEVER get the low score on a hole. You'll be called names.

Better to learn golf from a good instructor (as tough as they are to find) and learn to play golf. Hitting the ball 150 straight will only get you so far.

[scv76]

I may be out of line here, but I think iacas is off base here and not exactly being fair to the poster.(I assume this stems from some thing from some other thread the Op posted up, but that's irrelevant here)

I don't see anywhere in this thread where HGF says as you state "you basically tell people to hit 135-yard shots, or 150-yard shots, or something like that, and then two-putt."

Quit reading things into what wasn't posted!

He is just stating what he has observed, and offers some insight about how people don't like to make changes, especially if the changes temporarily negatively effect their golf scores.

The OP (HGF) clearly is not saying here that good golfers should be playing it safe and easing up on their distances and hitting to "safe" areas (even though they probably do practice such course management), he makes reference to golfers who shoot between 95-100.

A poor scoring golfer (obviously a poor swing) can get real discouraged by trying to max out very hit and trying to make the impossible shots they see the pros do every weekend. It could be encouraging for them if they did lay off a little and shoot some better scores...who knows it may even motivate them to attempt to obtain a better swing which would reduce their scores even more.

He is also saying "If you really want to accelerate your scoring improvement take lessons for specific areas of the game like chipping, putting and one of my favorites: a punch shot.  A punch shot is easy to learn, easy to hit and a safe shot that can be used in so many situations that can save you strokes."

Little bitty baby steps, one at a time.

[saevel25]

If they mean by easing off distance, by not trying to bash the brains out of the ball, then yes that is good idea. It will also increase a chance of better contact, and decrease side spin. But, to play golf were you hit irons on every hole, and try to hit the center of the green, then just two putt is boring. Sorry but i love going for short part 4's, going for par 5's in two. I love trying to play interesting short game shots. Its the touch situations that makes this game great and  annoying at the same time.

To me it seems to be a cop out to the game of golf to play that way.

[Gresh24]

Quote:

I am. 95% of golf pros flat out stink.

So, all (or 95%) of golf instruction is worthless, as the instuctors stink?

[sk golf]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

So, all (or 95%) of golf instruction is worthless, as the instuctors stink?

Be careful who your're getting help from...

[BaseballGolfer]

There are many reasons why a student doesn't improve their game.

I've been giving personal instruction for the last seven years.  However in a different sport, baseball.  I was fortunate enough to play professionally for six years and now enjoy my current job of giving back.

It's a MAJOR

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by sk golf

Be careful who your're getting help from...

If only 5% don't "flat out stink", it goes beyond just being careful who you get help from...

And average mid to high capper does not have the ability to determine if their instructor is in that 5%.  So, as I suggested/asked, it is worthless to even try to get golf lessons...

[Chief Broom]

Originally Posted by HeadGolfool

I’m not against lessons, but lessons without a plan, a commitment to time, patience and knowing that you may get worse before you see real improvement is a waste of time and money.  Most golfers I observe are not willing to make this commitment.  If you’re not, you would find it far easier and faster to improve your scores with the swing you have by learning the principles I talk about in the previous paragraph.

Shouldn't this be included in the price of a lesson?  What I mean is shouldn't the pro you hire be the one to provide you with the lesson plan?  I've taken a few lessons and to be honest have yet to see much benefit from them for my game.

I'm a lifelong golfer who is entirely self taught (I did read Jack Nicklaus' book "Golf My Way" when I was 12).  I reached a 15 handicap in my early 20's (I'm now 45).  I took my first lesson about 4 years ago as an 18 handicapper and it was a complete waste of money.  I paid for 5 lessons ($150) and didn't bother going back after the second lesson (the guy didn't remember me from the first lesson 1 week prior).  I took another set of five lessons (again $150) about a year later from a PGA apprentice pro about a year later.  Those lessons weren't a waste but my handicap remained the same and I wasn't inspired to purchase more lessons primarily because he hadn't told me anything I hadn't tried before and I didn't see any kind of plan arising from the lessons that I could work on incrementally or otherwise.  A year later I took 1 lesson from a local pro that included video analysis.  I did gain some insight into my swing from the experience, but overall I wasn't inspired to seek the pro out for further guidance.  Finally I took one lesson last year from the apprentice pro at a club I'm a member of and while the lesson was worthwhile I didn't take anything from the lesson that I have been able to use going forward.

That last lesson experience has left me with the thought that my game is wholly in my hands and that as I improve (and I do feel that over the last 4 years my game has continued to improve) having a relationship with a teaching pro will be useful for those times when I struggle to do what I know works for me.  I would dearly like to meet a teaching pro who could provide me with an indepth evaluation of my game and provide me with a lesson plan/outline for how specifically they would help my game.

Maybe some of my problem is from a lack of commitment.  I'm cheap and before I commit hundreds of dollars to lessons I want to see where we'd be going and how the pro is going to take me there.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by HeadGolfool

I have spent a lot of time observing golfers at the clubs I have belonged to over the years and I see a very similar pattern in regards to golfers and golf lessons.  HERE'S WHAT I MEAN:

At my current club we have like 5 different pros that work the shop and give lessons and we also have an LPGA Pro that does nothing but give lessons at a designated station on the range.  I have watched with amusement as numerous golfers have taken lessons from as many as 4 of these different pros all with-in a 4-5 month period.  Most have shown no real improvement in their games and I’m certainly not blaming it on the Pros.

Here’s what’s lacking:

Golfers don’t typically make a plan with the Pro and map out a program and what their expectations will be.  In today's “got to have it now society” most people don’t have the time, patience or commitment to make a swing change work.  Sure you may see some initial improvement with some lesson, but it will be just a matter of time before you hit some bad shots and abandon what you were working on.  Time to find another teacher.   When PGA pros make swing changes it takes months before they feel comfortable and they hit 1,000 balls a day.

I hear golfers say “what they were teaching me just didn't’t feel comfortable”  Your current swing may feel comfortable but you’re shooting “95”.  So many golfers say you want to get better but aren't’t willing to do what it takes.

Here’s what I mean:

I have friends and friends of friends that are “95-100” shooters that say they want to shoot better scores.  I show them how to make adjustments to the score on the card to meet their skill level, show them how to hit to zones and avoid trouble, change their mindset from giving up their desire for distance in favor of doing whatever it takes to score and they will all shoot the best rounds of their golfing life.  It really is easy to improve, but it’s not as glamorous as hitting an occasional long drive or a miraculous shot out of trouble.  So even after shooting some of their best scores ever, they will abandon this playing style and go back to their inconsistent go for broke, long ball game.  So I hear a lot of mixed messages from golfer when they say they would do anything to shoot better golf.

I’m not against lessons, but lessons without a plan, a commitment to time, patience and knowing that you may get worse before you see real improvement is a waste of time and money.  Most golfers I observe are not willing to make this commitment.  If you’re not, you would find it far easier and faster to improve your scores with the swing you have by learning the principles I talk about in the previous paragraph.

If you really want to accelerate your scoring improvement take lessons for specific areas of the game like chipping, putting and one of my favorites: a punch shot.  A punch shot is easy to learn, easy to hit and a safe shot that can be used in so many situations that can save you strokes.

Hope this is useful.

Richard

Yes, it was useful. I took 4 lessons in 2010. They were over just when we (I) started making progress. This winter I'm doing 10 lessons - same pro - same plan. Each week we assess where I am and confirm we're still on the same path. I want to hit more fairways and greens and I'm willing to sacrafice a little distance to do it. If we have to retrace some steps (no access to a hitting area between lessons), so be it. If we were in the middle of the golf season, I might opt for the course management lessons, but the off season is a great time to work on a plan for the upcoming season.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk golf

Be careful who your're getting help from...

If only 5% don't "flat out stink", it goes beyond just being careful who you get help from...

And average mid to high capper does not have the ability to determine if their instructor is in that 5%.  So, as I suggested/asked, it is worthless to even try to get golf lessons...

Enjoy the kool aid.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Enjoy the kool aid.

What does that mean?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Enjoy the kool aid.

What does that mean?

Maybe they have tighter standards in Canada regarding who can give lessons, but I've overheard quite a few lessons over the years and other than a couple exceptions, what the instructors were trying to get across to the students was the right message. Were they all picking it up? Of course not. Maybe it's 95% of students who flat out stink?!?

Now having said that, my experiences with lessons have been good, so perhaps I'm biased.  Here's an example of another instructor (author?) who also agrees that most instructors are putting the cart before the horse and are ultimately not good instructors.

http://www.lakesidepress.com/Golf/Step4-SwingPath.htm

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Maybe they have tighter standards in Canada regarding who can give lessons, but I've overheard quite a few lessons over the years and other than a couple exceptions, what the instructors were trying to get across to the students was the right message. Were they all picking it up? Of course not. Maybe it's 95% of students who flat out stink?!?

I take it you don't agre with iacas?

What does Canada have to do with anything?

Sorry, I must be missing something...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by scv76

I may be out of line here, but I think iacas is off base here and not exactly being fair to the poster.(I assume this stems from some thing from some other thread the Op posted up, but that's irrelevant here)

I don't see anywhere in this thread where HGF says as you state "you basically tell people to hit 135-yard shots, or 150-yard shots, or something like that, and then two-putt."

Quit reading things into what wasn't posted!

It was posted elsewhere. Just because it's not in this thread doesn't mean it hasn't been said. Besides, I ask him if I've got it right, and he's free to respond to say "no" and share with us what he means. He's spammed this site with that idea and had to be told to remove links to his site from his signature and elsewhere (every post he made at first). So I don't believe I'm reading into anything.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

So, all (or 95%) of golf instruction is worthless, as the instuctors stink?

Well, it's going to be less than great, I'll put it that way.

It's important to note that I have some pretty high standards for what I consider "not sucking" as a golf instructor. Someone I think is terrible might be "pretty good" to someone else.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by iacas

Well, it's going to be less than great, I'll put it that way.

Well, "won't be great" and "flat out stink" are a far cry form each other....

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Maybe they have tighter standards in Canada regarding who can give lessons, but I've overheard quite a few lessons over the years and other than a couple exceptions, what the instructors were trying to get across to the students was the right message. Were they all picking it up? Of course not. Maybe it's 95% of students who flat out stink?!?

I take it you don't agre with iacas?

What does Canada have to do with anything?

Sorry, I must be missing something...

I edited that post - check the link. When I think about it some more, my experiences coloured my first post. I approached lessons already being familiar with the ball flight laws - the proper ones - so we didn't need to cover that ground. If I hadn't been familiar with them, we'd have started there, and if we didn't I might have come away with a different opinion of the lessons process.