Can you have lots of lag and still flip?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by steventimothy

There's no question that the pros have got way, way, way more lag in their swings than most amateurs. Show me a pro who doesn't have at least 90 degrees of angle between the arm and the club when the left arm is parallel to the ground on the downswing. Almost no medium to high handicappers achieve that. And of course, all the tour's longer hitters have much more lag even than that.

Actually, some do, some don't. http://iacas.org/f/zuback_downswing_sequence.jpg You can generate speed a couple of different ways. But, of course, what you said is generally true.

Originally Posted by steventimothy

Also, no decent ballstriking pro ever flips his hands or loses his right wrist angle at any point during the swing.

I agree that it wouldn't look like the flipping of a poor player, but plenty of pros (virtually all) lose the right wrist angle. It's a source of speed.

Originally Posted by steventimothy

Most good ballstriking pros, 45 degrees of swing arc or more after impact, still have their left arm straight, left wrist flat, and their club shaft parallel to their left arm.

I disagree. Virtually all pros see the shaft passing the left arm shortly after impact. Again, it's a speed component, while maintaining that angle for too long would inhibit speed.

NB: my definition of lag is simply when the shaft trails the left arm. Lag is only important until the ball is struck. Too much lag is almost as bad as too little lag (or losing the lag prior to the ball being struck).

Originally Posted by steventimothy

Maybe one mental image a person can have to help lag and distance is to think of the maximum extension of the swing being well after impact, maybe 20-30 degrees after impact. That would keep the club acclerating through the impact zone, and might help get rid of some of the flipping.

The maximum extension of the swing (or really, the right arm/elbow) does occur somewhere around there, yes. I agree. But I don't know that it has a whole lot to do with "lag" per se.

I've written a few articles on lag in the "Swing Thoughts" section of the site.

Originally Posted by steventimothy

Rory's own position doesn't match your 45° theory.

And so that I'm clear, look: 99.9% of golfers need to retain lag longer. For many it might feel like more lag but "lag" is a tough thing to feel. Things which help with lag are getting the arms down in sequence. Having the Weight Forward properly by impact. Shoulder alignments, hip alignments, your grip, the Diagonal Sweet Spot Path.

But lag is a complex subject. It's very, very difficult to talk about it online, except in generalities: you want some at impact but in every good player it's quickly thrown out as that helps to create speed. Again, 99.9% of golfers don't need to worry about throwing out the lag, they need it longer. The trick is finding out HOW you can retain it longer.

[steventimothy]

I meant to put 15 degrees and not 45 degrees after impact but I couldn't edit the post :)

I do agree that the best way to get lag is to have the hands relaxed and not active during the downswing, but I also think that habitual casters of the club need to have more drastic action to try to develop lag. I know, because I was one, and am always struggling with it, or my index would be lower than 12!

Thinking of the full release being well after impact has definitely helped me not flip too soon.