What are 'outside-in' and 'inside out' teaching methods?

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

I think its really ignorant to say Trackman and the new ball flight laws doesn't give you information about your swing.  Thats just very closed minded my friend...

You misunderstand me. Its probably my grammar.

TrackMan proves that a ball starts 85% relative to the club face angle or something like that. However, It doesn't prove what's happening when you swing unless you've got one that is.

I definitely didn't say, "Trackman and the new ball flight laws don't give you information about your swing." I didn't say that. However it doesn't give any info about anybody's swings, it just proves that ball flight is a little different to what we thought.

[Precis1on]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

small spherical object = golf ball

small target = flag/hole

I'd have got this with the usual terms.

What they have proved with TrackMan doesn't let you know whether you know anything about your swing.

I took the context of my words outside of golfing terms. It wasn't to belittle you, it was to reinforce my what I said about fine motor skills.

I know a lot about my swing, even without Trackman. The new ballflight laws allow me to shape my shots the way I want them to be shaped. Trackman verifies that I'm doing it correctly, and video shows me that my swing is still solid while adjusting my setup to hit said shots.

Now if you're wondering how many amateurs understand their swing using Trackman? Probably not many, unless they were taught or did their research.

And we're getting OT now (again) taking about Trackman and BFLs. So that's my last post about those.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

What they have proved with TrackMan doesn't let you know whether you know anything about your swing.

Here's an example.

A guy's about a 3 index. Good swing, wants to get everything he can out of his driver, and currently he hits down a little (AoA is -3). He'd like to get that to +3 while not messing with his ball flight, swing, etc. a ton.

So he gets on a Trackman and begins messing around. He moves the ball up. He sets the handle back a little. He tweaks a small thing in his swing to help the club get to +3. He sees a small ball flight change occurring, so he does something else to bring that back in line. At the end of the day, he finds that he's got to move the ball forward two inches, set the handle back slightly, and let his arms come off his body a little bit to keep the path going out enough for his stock baby draw.

After every shot he's hit he can check some parameters and he'll then know what changing x, y, or z has in terms of his impact conditions.

Trackman is a great tool for learning and ultimately "knowing" quite a bit about your golf swing.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's an example.

A guy's about a 3 index. Good swing, wants to get everything he can out of his driver, and currently he hits down a little (AoA is -3). He'd like to get that to +3 while not messing with his ball flight, swing, etc. a ton.

So he gets on a Trackman and begins messing around. He moves the ball up. He sets the handle back a little. He tweaks a small thing in his swing to help the club get to +3. He sees a small ball flight change occurring, so he does something else to bring that back in line. At the end of the day, he finds that he's got to move the ball forward two inches, set the handle back slightly, and let his arms come off his body a little bit to keep the path going out enough for his stock baby draw.

After every shot he's hit he can check some parameters and he'll then know what changing x, y, or z has in terms of his impact conditions.

Trackman is a great tool for learning and ultimately "knowing" quite a bit about your golf swing.

OK I'm buying one. How much do they cost?

Can he repeat this tweaking on the golf course without laying poles on the ground?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

Can he repeat this tweaking on the golf course without laying poles on the ground?

Yes.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes.

I doubt that!

How much does a Trackman gizmo cost?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

I doubt that!

Actually, it turns out he misses the fairways left 80-90% because his clubface is 1mm too closed.

Originally Posted by Patrick57

How much does a Trackman gizmo cost?

http://bit.ly/GY3PeJ

[Apotheosis]

How can you doubt that small adjustments made to his swing while working with a Trackman are repeatable when he is on the course? Did he forget what changes he implemented?

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by iacas

Actually, it turns out he misses the fairways left 80-90% because his clubface is 1mm too closed.

http://bit.ly/GY3PeJ

I'm not good at surfing. Can't you tell me?

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

How can you doubt that small adjustments made to his swing while working with a Trackman are repeatable when he is on the course? Did he forget what changes he implemented?

This tweaking is just so fine to repeat accurately, now for a tour pro maybe he puts in the hours but a weekend hacker - sorry 10 handicap.

"At the end of the day, he finds that he's got to move the ball forward two inches, set the handle back slightly, and let his arms come off his body a little bit to keep the path going out enough for his stock baby draw."

I was of the opinion this was tongue in cheek! I know this was aimed at a 3 handicapper but all the same.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

This tweaking is just so fine to repeat accurately, now for a tour pro maybe he puts in the hours but a weekend hacker - sorry 10 handicap.

"At the end of the day, he finds that he's got to move the ball forward two inches, set the handle back slightly, and let his arms come off his body a little bit to keep the path going out enough for his stock baby draw."

I was of the opinion this was tongue in cheek!

It's not tongue-in-cheek.

First, I said the guy's a 3 index. Don't know where you get "weekend hacker" or "10."

Second, two of the changes are at setup, and the third is simply not maintaining the pressure points in the armpits. That's not exactly a complex thought to take to the golf course for a 3 index.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by iacas

It's not tongue-in-cheek.

First, I said the guy's a 3 index. Don't know where you get "weekend hacker" or "10."

Second, two of the changes are at setup, and the third is simply not maintaining the pressure points in the armpits. That's not exactly a complex thought to take to the golf course for a 3 index.

It would confuse the hell out of my daughter. I edited my original answer.

[Patrick57]

How do you know the balls 2" forward? What's the standard for the handle.

[kurisu]

Patrick, if I say 2" is 5.08cm, does that help you picture it?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

How do you know the balls 2" forward? What's the standard for the handle.

Oh, sorry. I meant 14.7 milli-radians forward.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by kurisu

Patrick, if I say 2" is 5.08cm, does that help you picture it?

Originally Posted by iacas

Oh, sorry. I meant 14.7 milli-radians forward.

2" forward of where? Handle where? Armpit pressure where?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Patrick57

2" forward of where? Handle where? Armpit pressure where?

Forward of where he had it.

Back of where he had it.

In his knees. Duh.

Forget it, P57.

[Patrick57]

Originally Posted by iacas

Forget it, P57.

Can't be answered. Bed Time.

Good night!

You may not need to worry about the answer!