SI's list of worst cheating scandals.

[Kahuna]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.1.html



Personally I think they missed one... (Bonds).

[lamebums]

  Kahuna said:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...content.1.html

Yeah, Bonds is the big one they missed.

[Dent]

wow thats sad.. athletes cheating in professional sports when people look up to them

[ragontona]

  Kahuna said:

Personally I think they missed one... (Bonds).

Hate to say this, but the fact is he hasn't tested positive for steroids. Ever.

And, if you're gonna say Bonds, then you need to say McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, and countless others who took advantage of a flawed system that intentionally looked the other way. None of them ever tested positive either. But all of them are just as guilty of "cheating." Also, I'm wondering where the outrage is to remove Sutton, Perry, and other KNOWN cheaters from the Hall of Fame? Funny that we look at their cheating differently than we look at Bonds'. Norm Cash won the batting title in 1961 with a corked bat. Whitey Ford never saw a baseball he couldn't doctor. Joe Niekro carried an emery board in his pocket. The New York Giants stole signs for pretty much the entire season in 1951, tipping their batters to what opposing pitchers were throwing. Ken Caminiti won an MVP award, then admitted (after he retired) that he was all juiced up at the time. I don't condone Bonds for what he's allegedly done. But let's face facts -- cheating happens. Always has, always will.

[iacas]

  ragontona said:

Norm Cash won the batting title in 1961 with a corked bat. Whitey Ford never saw a baseball he couldn't doctor. Joe Niekro carried an emery board in his pocket. The New York Giants stole signs for pretty much the entire season in 1951, tipping their batters to what opposing pitchers were throwing. Ken Caminiti won an MVP award, then admitted (after he retired) that he was all juiced up at the time.

FWIW, I don't consider the stealing of signs to be cheating. You can't hide your signs well enough, so be it.

[ragontona]

  iacas said:

FWIW, I don't consider the stealing of signs to be cheating. You can't hide your signs well enough, so be it.

Well, when they set up an elaborate system at the Polo Grounds involving hidden telescopes -- it may not be on the up and up.

[Firebat138]

If you can;t hit a 100MPH fast ball without steroids....They aren't gonna help when you do.

[jb1982]

With or without roids, what Barry has done in his career is VERY impressive!! I'm still cheering for him. And the fact remains, he has nevery tested positive....

[Q.Q.Quillume]

  Firebat138 said:

If you can;t hit a 100MPH fast ball without steroids....They aren't gonna help when you do.

No, but they might turn a non-steroid aided fly-out to the warning track into a steroid aided home run.

[iacas]

  ragontona said:

Well, when they set up an elaborate system at the Polo Grounds involving hidden telescopes -- it may not be on the up and up.

I say good for them. There's nothing in the rules about stealing signs, so it's not against the rules and thus not cheating.

Opposing teams didn't want their signs stolen, they should have come up with the method of showing signs like we have today. Barry is a crook who's just managed to escape. Everyone in the world knows that even though he hasn't been caught, what he's done has been against the spirit of everything.

[ragontona]

  iacas said:

I say good for them. There's nothing in the rules about stealing signs, so it's not against the rules and thus not cheating.

By that logic, steroids or any other performance-enhancing drug (creatine, andro, amphetamines, diet pills, etc) taken before 2002 weren't against the rules either. Prior to that point, no rule existed in baseball.

I'm not trying to be a Bonds apologist here. I'm from the SF Bay Area, love the Giants, and even have an autographed Bonds ball -- and I feel let down and ashamed by his alleged actions. All I'm saying is that he's not the only villain in this controversy. By all accounts, a pretty good chunk of players were using steroids prior to baseball's new policy. If we're going to try to condemn his accomplishments because of what we believe he did, then there are others that require just as much scrutiny: McGwire breaking Maris' record, Sosa's multiple 60 HR seasons, Canseco's 40 HR/40 SB campaign, Albert Belle's 50 HR/50 2B season... the list goes on. And what excuses other players from the same scrutiny? Look at Roger Clemens circa 1986 versus today -- his body's obviously changed, and he's throwing just as hard now as he did then. What about Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak? Rickey Henderson's base-stealing records? Brady Anderson's out-of-nowhere 50 HR season? To me, that entire era is under a cloud of suspicion in terms of who used PEDs. If we're going to villify Bonds, then I have a few more names to throw into the ring, is all I'm saying.

[iacas]

  ragontona said:

By that logic, steroids or any other performance-enhancing drug (creatine, andro, amphetamines, diet pills, etc) taken before 2002 weren't against the rules either. Prior to that point, no rule existed in baseball.

No, but they are against the LAW in most states. So, that qualifies in my book.

  ragontona said:

All I'm saying is that he's not the only villain in this controversy. By all accounts, a pretty good chunk of players were using steroids prior to baseball's new policy.

There are two reasons I couldn't care less about baseball lately:

a) the Pirates have shitty owners b) steroids I'm not blaming only Bonds. But he's "gone the farthest" by cheating the system, so he gets the brunt of it.

  ragontona said:

If we're going to try to condemn

I'm not discussing them because they're not in the news right now. I didn't support them back then, either. Please don't assume to know how I feel about people I've not even talked about.

[ragontona]

  iacas said:

Please don't assume to know how I feel about people I've not even talked about.

Wasn't trying to assume how you feel, Erik. Only the first part of my post was a direct response to you. The rest was just another cliched steroid era rant damning the entire era.

Ah, it's good to be back in the fray.

[The Golfing Polack]

  ragontona said:

What about Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak?

You actually think that a PED would let anyone play that many games in a row? In most cases they have made the players who used them injury prone and shortened careers.

[ragontona]

  The Golfing Polack said:

You actually think that a PED would let anyone play that many games in a row? In most cases they have made the players who used them injury prone and shortened careers.

Do I personally think that Cal used PEDs? No, probably not.

My point was that ANY accomplishments from that period of baseball should be subjected to some level of scrutiny.

[Firebat138]

Not even that....Sports....Well..We want it to be awesome...Who cares what they do or how they do it.....It's frankly the American way...and we love it....

  ragontona said:

Do I personally think that Cal used PEDs? No, probably not.