Jump to content
IGNORED

Disadvantage of too stiff a flex?


Note: This thread is 1801 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Originally Posted by newtogolf

From the Project X website:

Project X Flighted

In addition to the playing characteristics that have made the Project X shaft a tour favorite, the Project X Flighted features an exaggerated change in kick point within each shaft throughout the set to optimize ball flight through the bag. Long irons provide a lower kick point for higher ball flight, easier launch and greater distance, while the short irons have a higher kick point for a lower trajectory, greater accuracy and control.

Ya thats weird i could have sworn they were supposed to lower my trajectory especially with the 6.0 all well ill just have to adjust when playing into headwind

Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

You should go with the softest shafts that you can still control.  Softer shafts allow you to swing easier and more in control but still get a good trajectory.  With stiff you will feel that you have to kill the ball just to load up the shaft properly and its going to hurt your swing and your confidence.

If at some point you find that you are hitting the ball too high and its ballooning on you, fine, go with stiff but for now Id go with a reg flex shaft.

Ebay is full of used sets of clubs from people who listed to their ego, bought stiffs only to realize later that they cant hit them.

Originally Posted by MisterE

I'd always recommend going in and getting fit by a pro on a monitor, they can help with the small details of finding the right shaft flex and type.

I agree with these two comments.  Shaft weight is an important variable also.  You can, for example, get the playing characteristics of a Dynamic Gold shaft in a 20% lighter Dynamic Gold SL shaft.

And when looking at graphite shafts, whether woods or irons, it's very difficult to accurately compare shaft flexes from different  manufacturers based  on what's printed on the shaft.  (Stiff, Reg, etc.)  Last I heard, there just aren't any flex standards used among  different manufacturers for graphite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by bwdial

There's a used sports equipment store near me that always has a wide selection of hardly hit, usually forged (sorry... no Mizunos) irons with 6.5 and X flex shafts.  If not for a few blemishes, they could be sold for new.

I wish such was the case near me. I'm in the market myself and while I would prefer not to go used, I'm looking at a large bill whether I go new, build my own, or reshaft. I know I can hit blades without too much trouble but the shafts need to be pretty formidable. 1 set of 8 KBS C-taper or PX, 280$. 1 set of 8 iron heads from Golfworks, 200$. Tools, supplies, grips, another 80$. Suddenly a set of blades or CBs for around 600-650 seem quite reasonable, especially without needing install.

My own plan is to pay and get an hour long fitting, for irons and the driver. I want the chance to hit some shafts, and to get the exact specs I need. I'm fully expecting a 6.5 or 7.0 flex, but who knows. Then I'm probably going the component route since I feel somewhat comfortable dropping in shafts to new heads, but not as much with pulling and prepping existing ones. The cost of having it done for me is way too high, and it's really hard to find good stock shafts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I wish such was the case near me. I'm in the market myself and while I would prefer not to go used, I'm looking at a large bill whether I go new, build my own, or reshaft. I know I can hit blades without too much trouble but the shafts need to be pretty formidable. 1 set of 8 KBS C-taper or PX, 280$. 1 set of 8 iron heads from Golfworks, 200$. Tools, supplies, grips, another 80$. Suddenly a set of blades or CBs for around 600-650 seem quite reasonable, especially without needing install.

My own plan is to pay and get an hour long fitting, for irons and the driver. I want the chance to hit some shafts, and to get the exact specs I need. I'm fully expecting a 6.5 or 7.0 flex, but who knows. Then I'm probably going the component route since I feel somewhat comfortable dropping in shafts to new heads, but not as much with pulling and prepping existing ones. The cost of having it done for me is way too high, and it's really hard to find good stock shafts.

I think youre going to be very surprised and find that the flex they recommend is much, much less stiff than you think.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I think youre going to be very surprised and find that the flex they recommend is much, much less stiff than you think.

I think I'm being pretty realistic. I've done my own research and I have a radar unit so I'm not guessing on the SS. If they recommend anything besides a 6, 6.5 or 7 there'd better be numbers on the monitor backing it up. I'm mostly there to hit balls and see the trackman results. The shaft I hit where I want will be the choice even if it's less stiff than I thought, but you'd better believe I'm throwing a couple really hard swings in there to see if it stays in control. I'm not fitting to my half swing and I don't want to swing out of my shoes every time, but the shaft I choose will have to hold up reasonably to full power or else there's no point having that extra level. Right now I can't hit anything properly except my sand wedge through 9 iron with a full shot. That's great within 150 yards or so, but anything farther away is a chore.

Imagine my surprise when i found out a firm flex was way, way too soft for me. I took the advice instead of going with a stiff, taking a slightly softer flex. I won't be taking the same advice again, no matter how helpful you or anyone else may be trying to be. A 6.0 is minimal, a 6.5 is the most realistic choice of shaft flex for me right now. I can tell you I'm more likely to pick the 7 than the 6 this time. And my driver is a 7 flex for sure since I swing my long clubs even faster than my irons. It is hell trying to adapt to excessive flex. I welcome the unyielding rebar.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I know I can hit blades without too much trouble but the shafts need to be pretty formidable.

I'm fully expecting a 6.5 or 7.0 flex, but who knows.

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I think I'm being pretty realistic. I've done my own research and I have a radar unit so I'm not guessing on the SS. If they recommend anything besides a 6, 6.5 or 7 there'd better be numbers on the monitor backing it up. I'm mostly there to hit balls and see the trackman results. The shaft I hit where I want will be the choice even if it's less stiff than I thought, but you'd better believe I'm throwing a couple really hard swings in there to see if it stays in control. I'm not fitting to my half swing and I don't want to swing out of my shoes every time, but the shaft I choose will have to hold up reasonably to full power or else there's no point having that extra level. Right now I can't hit anything properly except my sand wedge through 9 iron with a full shot. That's great within 150 yards or so, but anything farther away is a chore.

Imagine my surprise when i found out a firm flex was way, way too soft for me. I took the advice instead of going with a stiff, taking a slightly softer flex. I won't be taking the same advice again, no matter how helpful you or anyone else may be trying to be. A 6.0 is minimal, a 6.5 is the most realistic choice of shaft flex for me right now. I can tell you I'm more likely to pick the 7 than the 6 this time. And my driver is a 7 flex for sure since I swing my long clubs even faster than my irons. It is hell trying to adapt to excessive flex. I welcome the unyielding rebar.

Hi Lucius,

You have me curious.......where are you losing strokes on the course?  I'm assuming the hdp in your profile is correct.  You can hit blades without too much trouble, you hit your 9 iron 150 yds, and you have a  better ball flight with stiffer shafts.  Is this for perfect swings that don't happen very often?  Short game and putting really bad?  Medical issue?

Don't want to be nosy, as I said just curious.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Hi Lucius,

You have me curious.......where are you losing strokes on the course?  I'm assuming the hdp in your profile is correct.  You can hit blades without too much trouble, you hit your 9 iron 150 yds, and you have a  better ball flight with stiffer shafts.  Is this for perfect swings that don't happen very often?  Short game and putting really bad?  Medical issue?

Don't want to be nosy, as I said just curious.

I don't have the right shafts in my set, and the longer the club the softer the club plays. 9 irons are tipped much more than a 4 iron, and are shorter in length so it's much easier to hit them solid. So I can bring a lot more power to bear in the short clubs but the higher in the set the worse I hit them the more power I use. I can easily draw my short irons, but anything higher than an 8 will either hook, shank, or push. It's not a matter of overswinging because I have gotten my long irons up to 115mph if I overswing, and I can get in the 80s with really no effort, so the mid 90s is about my proper level. I strike the short irons in a tight spot on the face, and I can vary my angle of attack and control the ball fairly well without missing the sweet spot. But I feel like I'm getting poor power transfer into the ball on good swings, even when the divot looks right. This is especially the case with the driver, even when I make solid contact. I'm rechecking my grip, wrist position at the top, impact position, and swing path and plane to see if there's anything not squared up, and it comes down to 2 things: I do a lot better when I choke up as little as 1/4", and the shaft isn't kicking right no matter what I do.

I'm broke so getting a new set of irons isn't a simple matter; I'm probably going to have to build them myself and only get a partial set.

The main reason my HC (which is estimated) is so high is I haven't played except once in the last 6 months, which was about when my swing came together. My putting and short game are decent, but inconsistent at times. So I lose strokes over stupid things as much as anyone, but I can generate power and do it fairly consistently. I probably could get down to low double digits just by adding a 6 iron I can hit straight about 190. I could score on most of the nearby courses with just irons if I could control them. If I could drive as far as my swing speed indicates, I could get to single digits. I honestly think getting new shafts and relearning my swing to fit the new flight could make a huge difference.

I don't want this thread to be about me though, I'm just going to buy an x stiff 6 iron one of these days and we'll see if it helps. If it fixes everything, believe me I'll be back to gloat. If not, then it can't hurt anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 2 months later...

It really depends on the club to stiff with a 3 iron will result in pushed shots and miss hits or straight weak shots. where to stiff with a 7 iron wont make much of a difference for instance you could compare to identical 7 irons heads one with a reg flex and one with a x and find the x to go lower stay on target and have about the same distance,the reg would go higher just as straight sometimes and then randomnly seems to go 8 yards farther to the left. This is because it kicks later and sometimes just jumps. What happens with the longer clubs is their harder to square up and way so a reg flex often helps not so much with the driver though just hybrids and long irons. I think it has to do with the actual mass of the 460cc clubheads. whipping through impact adding loft and going left. Project x has it's flighted shafts for this issue altering kick point and trajectory while maintaining a consistent weight through out the set. Each clubhead in your irons weight different grams and to the fact you need longer shafts for each one this laters swing weight. You need to find the right match up for you customly or get fit by a pro.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I'm just going to buy an x stiff 6 iron one of these days and we'll see if it helps. If it fixes everything, believe me I'll be back to gloat. If not, then it can't hurt anything.

You'll have to let us know if it doesnt work out for you, that way those of us who said you dont need an X-stiff can say, "I told you so".   You cant have it both ways where you get to gloat if you were right and no one says anything if you were wrong.

Like Ive said many times on this forum and others, Ebay is full of clubs that people bought thinking they swing hard enough for a stiff and were sorely mistaken.  Infact, I recently score a sweet deal on a almost new MP Fli-Hi with a P-X 5.5 that is currently in the shop getting a Dynamic Gold Superlite R300 put on it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

i seem to push/slice regular flex woods (i need to upgrade) even though i am fitted for stiff flex.  it seems that is the opposite of what is said here, that less flex causes draws more than fades.  kind of weird why that happens.

and oops, i didn't realize this thread was so old...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by tuffluck

i seem to push/slice regular flex woods (i need to upgrade) even though i am fitted for stiff flex.  it seems that is the opposite of what is said here, that less flex causes draws more than fades.  kind of weird why that happens.

and oops, i didn't realize this thread was so old...

I use an R shafted driver a few times a year in tournaments (a couple "fun" holes where everyone uses the same driver and wears hockey gloves which probably a Canadian thing and during some scramble rounds when we have to trade drivers with someone for a certain hole). Without fail the ball starts farther right than normal (I play for a straight to draw ball flight with a driver) and never comes back. Like you I seem to be in the minority.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Okay, here's a little morsel of experience for all of you who *think* you need stiffer shafts. Consider this. I play with 710 blades and have low single digit handicap, so as we all know, the shafts become ''whippy'' as they become more used, it's a simple metallurgical fact from wear and tear. I play a lot and practice a lot, so it was time to re-shaft the irons.

I had DGS S300 lites and switched to the Rifle PX 6.0 flighted shafts. My fore arms are KILLING ME !... These are wayyyy too stiff for my 51 year old body, I can even feel it in my knee's from swinging these "water pipe stiff" shafts. I shutter to think what the 6.5 or 7.0's must feel like.

here's where it was noticeable;

1. hands sore as hell, as theyre being pried open from no flex during heavy load portions of the swing.

2. From that comes OVER gripping the club trying to not let the club pry the hands/grip open. So fore arms are sore as hell too.

(squeeze hand really tight and feel the top of the forearm burn between the elbow and the wrist. )

3. Over compensating my ''hitting into a strong leg'' technique has caused my old, weak ass,  knee's to be sore as hell too.

4. This is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE RIGHT HERE. I LOST about 10 yards for EACH iron I have. I play 3- PW and ALL of them came up shorter and man did I look silly now being in every front guard bunker on the course. My bro's LOVED taking my money with these new shafts that I *thought* I was still strong enough to swing.

I decided to swallow my pride and turn in my "Man Club Card" and sulk back to the ''wimp golfer''  line and get weaker shafts. I switched  back to Rifle, flighted 5.0's (very F-ing expensive), I didnt even stop at the 5.5's,  I went STRAIGHT to the 5.0's and now Im right back to where I started with my accuracy in both ball flight and distance control.

I also feel GREAT after a round and sometimes can go 18 additional holes on the same day  (if momma doesnt require my many, many services at home).  The 5.0's are like a  "R+",  theyre a little stiffer than ''Regular'' flex.

So the moral of the story is this;

All you older guys (50 plus) need to embrace and accept the fact that stiffness of a club has EVERYTHING to do with how much money you win during a round and it most certainly doesnt mean your poor in bed if you use less stiff shafts either, so go down in ''stiffness'' and get closer to scratch and never mind the BS of swinging SUPER STIFF shafts unless you are a 22 year old lumberjack or a machinist who can use his hands as metal clamps, consider softer flex for treating your body better.

Here's another weird observation; I have a tipped  ''XS'' driver shaft that only weighs 60 grams in my ''R9 Supa-Dupa Tri". Its as light as I could go with as stiff as I could get it.  The "S" shafts are too soft for me on the long club as evidenced by the "too high" ball flight.

This is counter intuitive for me, but its the way that it is for whatever reasons.......

I can still hit my drives anywhere from 250 to 280 yards. Accuracy off the tee is the strong point of my game, I attribute it all to the shaft of my driver.

I can tell you this too, the mfg-ers of the shafts are BS-ing us all on their shafts, theyre ALL different from one shaft to another, even in the same brand, stiffness and model. I use a "tour" shaft that alone cost me 300 bones, but it is worth every bit of it.

If you find the right shaft for you, it'll change your life. It took me 8 years to figure this out and with all the new technology today it makes it even easier to find that correct shaft that fits YOU.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to state my personal experience; I recently changed to a much stiffer flex and heavier weight in my irons, and it made a huge difference in every way. Better contact on the face, better trajectory, better dispersion, less curve, better feel (which is subjective as I like stability), and it allows me to adjust my shot height and power without messing everything up. The only negatives are the price and the fact KBS doesn't make wood shafts, so I don't know what to play above my 3 iron. 35$ per shaft on the irons is worth it, but dear god are driver shafts expensive.

So while some players would gain from going softer, I was one who would have struggled if I hadn't gone with a stiffer model. While the advice Socal Blade and others present is worth consideration, it's not for everyone.

By the way, I'm 23 and I'm not a lumberjack. I have a very thin build with lots of flexibility. But on the other hand, I didn't go as stiff as I could have, and only took the SS X flex because it had more weight. I think the weight does me a lot more good than the flex, since it helps me make way better contact, but the dispersion is so good I wouldn't think of switching no matter the distance or comfort. I'll let you know in 20 years how it turns out though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

All I know is my girlfriend bought me a Nike driver with an X-stiff shaft on it (I had told her I hit a stiff shaft driver). I had to swing out of my shoes just to get the ball to stop duck hooking like crazy .

I played about 2 1/2 rounds with it before I went and got it reshafted to a stiff flex

Link to post
Share on other sites

New to this forum malarky, but i'd thought i'd stick down my experiences. I play titleist cb712s.  Had them fitted professionally with s300s, 2 deg upright, and 1" longer (i'm 6ft 3" tall).  Rubbish.  Took them back and had the s300s replaced with project x 6.5s, standard lie and 3/4" longer.  Sooooo much better.  The s300s felt far to heavy for me personally and strangely "loose" would be the best word. The Project X's are lighter and I feel like I get more feedback throughout my swing.  Don't plan on changing this set up for the foreseeable future.

In the bag:

Titleist 910 9.5deg driver - Aldila RIP 60 Stiff shaft

Titleist 909 D3 3 wood - Fujikura Zcom Pro95 stiff shaft

Titleist 909h 19deg hybrid - Project X 6.0 rifle shaft

Tilteist cb712 2 iron tweeked to 16 deg - Project X 6.5 rifle shaft

Titleist cb 712 4-pw - Project X 6.5 rifle shafts

Titleist Vokey 52, 58 wedges - Project X 6.5 rifle shafts

Taylormade Spider Monza Putter - knackered but irreplaceable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...
On 4/21/2012 at 5:28 PM, sebsmash said:

Hey everyone,

I am looking to piece together my first full real set of clubs.

I used the gigagolf online fitting to see what kind of shaft I should really be looking for.

Turns out I fall perfectly in between stiff and regular flex, their system asked how far I can hit a 5 iron, I am between 170 and 180 and for 170 they recommend regular but 180 recommends stiff.

 

I know if I choose regular and have too much flex my accuracy will suffer, but what will suffer If I choose a shaft that is too stiff?

Will it be distance only or accuracy too?

What would the effects be with a driver?

Thanks,

Sebastian

My 2 cents worth:

Really depends as much or more on your swing. Speed/Tempo.

Simply changing a shaft or loft or grip won't help at all unless you can stand there and say you have a good swing and a consistent one.

Too many times customers come in and claim a club was not built to some set of specs they asked for. I get the specs, check the club and it's as close to being on target as a person could determine without taking it apart and weighing each component and checking the actual flex of the shaft. A real fitting would have saved them a lot of frustration. In fact they many not have needed a new set in the first place.

Too stiff of a shaft is not as much of a problem as too much flex in a shaft. The head won't stay open as noted by other posters because of the stiffer shaft. A shaft that has too much flex for your swing speed will. Plus the torque rating of the shaft may allow it to twist clockwise and your position of the hands may affect this, but being stiffer won't give you an open face, only your swing will or the torque of the shaft. Get a shaft with 3 or so in torque if you can afford it. If not, stay under 5 no matter what.

Sometimes loft will affect your game more than the shaft since there are many different lofts and only 3 shaft flexes.

Swing-proper grip (both with your hands and the diameter of the actual grip), shaft and last the loft of the driver head. You'd be surprised how many golfers use too small of a grip 'just because they were sold them'. The older you get the harder it is to grip and hold a club consistently through an 18 hole round. Mid size may help. But in the beginning, get the swing down pat and if you do, you'll be able to hit a multitude of clubs properly.

Remember, the average weekend golfer, based on USGA and PGA records shoot a 97 (after figuring slope and such) and their Tee Shots average 220-230.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder how it turned out?  Too bad he didn't post the results.

When in doubt, I go for the stiffer flex.  It's more consistent when you vary your swing.  If your tempo is good, R flex could be fine.  Step on the swing and it's gone.  That won't happen as much with the stiffer flex.  You may lose some distance and the feel is not as sweet, but I'd rather have a shot that didn't feel as sweet versus a buttery swing that's in the woods.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: This thread is 1801 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjan21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.
  • Posts

    • Seems “anchored” to me.  Besides being hilariously dumb! LOL NO!  My buds would NEVER let me live that down!!! 
    • Hello I'm 38yo and even though I have always had an interest in golf I never picked up a golf club until the end of summer in 2019 and I got my green card just before the golf season ended in October. I practiced during the winter and played my first full round of 18 holes in April last year with 54 handicap. If there was one silver lining for me in 2020 it was that due to COVID-19 I was not allowed to work more than 60% of my working hours.  That meant I had a lot of free time that I could spend on practice or playing golf so I ended the year with a handicap of 17,2.  Lowest round was 87 on a par 72 course (it could easily have been 80-82 if I can improve my short game 😃). I'm loving the game even if it can be very frustrating some times .   
    • You should have had them fix it like this kid.   Best of luck in your comeback. These injuries do take a while to heal.
    • Mickelson played with a 47.5” driver yesterday. He was a bit squirrelly. 
    • If you can find it on demand, don't miss the episode with Tom Watson.
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. dpriceva
      dpriceva
      (59 years old)
    2. Jim C
      Jim C
      (60 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...