Divot path doesn't match ball flight

[B-Con]

Lately I've noticed that my swings consistently produce out-to-in divots. Even the good ones that send the ball on a straight or slightly drawing flight path. I've gotten my swing path under more control and I'm making better progress hitting down on the ball and moving the bottom of my swing more forward. In general my swing seems a lot better and more sound than it was at the start of the year. But I have these funky out-to-in divots. I used to have them back when I had a more out-to-in swing with frequent OTT issues, but now I struggle with that a lot less and I can hit a shot, have it start right and draw back, and still have an out-to-in looking divot. Sometimes the divot looks [i]very[/i] out-to-in, but the ball will still fly straight. I find it hard to believe I'm actually swinging along the path that the divot suggests I am, because my feel (which admittedly isn't worth much) and the ball flight disagree. My guess is that my clubs are too upright (currently using a standard lie) and that I'm hitting the ground with the heel first, and that's turning the clubface over a bit and pulling the club more inward. I've long suspected that I should be playing clubs that are flat. And my typical misses do tend to be pulls. Does that sound reasonable? Could irons with the wrong lie shift the path of your divots?

[saevel25]

First, if your hitting the ball first, then your not hitting heel first, your clubface is still closed, and if its a pull then your swing path is still from outside in.

If your hitting the ground before the ball you could catch the heel and the toe will turn over and the ball will start off left and should curve left, since your swing path is inside out. It shouldn't really cause your swing path to shift that much, it will effect your club face angle more.

If you want to check, Get a dry erase marker, draw a vertical line down the ball, set that up perpendicular to the ground (straight up and down). Set up so you strike the line when you swing (teeing up the ball helps). If the mark on your club is up and down, then your lie is pretty spot on, if the mark is angled alot, you can tell if your lie needs checked and adjusted.

[MEfree]

Yes.

I had the opposite problem in that I played standard lie irons when I should have had upright clubs with my toe contacting the ground first.  Looking at my (~triangle shaped) divot it looked like the club face went from way open at the start of the divot to way closed at the end.  It took me some time to realize that the beginning and end of the divot was only the toe of the club while the middle (deeper) part was the whole club face so the club was not really rotating closed as much as the divot made it seem.  I don`t recall if the divot also looked (more in to out) than it should have.

FWIW, I think Tiger has been working on an In to In swing which may create an out to in looking divot if the divot is entirely after the ball (after the club has started to go back in).

[iacas]

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53952/divots

Your path can be in to out with a divot pointing left. Absolutely possible and we see it every day on the PGA Tour. Straight to slightly left = drawers, way left = faders.

[B-Con]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/53952/divots]http://thesandtrap.com/t/53952/divots[/URL] Your path can be in to out with a divot pointing left. Absolutely possible and we see it every day on the PGA Tour. Straight to slightly left = drawers, way left = faders.

Thanks, good explanation. That makes the imagery clearer in my head.

[B-Con]

First, if your hitting the ball first, then your not hitting heel first, your clubface is still closed, and if its a pull then your swing path is still from outside in.  If your hitting the ground before the ball you could catch the heel and the toe will turn over and the ball will start off left and should curve left, since your swing path is inside out. It shouldn't really cause your swing path to shift that much, it will effect your club face angle more.

It's hard to tell on these types of shots when I practice because they're off forgiving mats or soft driving range soil, so it's possible for these shots with the unexpected divots I'm hitting the ground first just barely. Originally I thought maybe my lie was too upright and it was combined with catching some ground before impact, but I think iacas was onto something with his explanation. I should try that technique to get a gauge for whether my lie is too upright or not, though. Tangentially related to this topic: If you view the clubhead arc traced out on a flat plane viewed from above, the clubhead has a point where it's moving away from the body, an apex, and then back in towards the body. I'm curious what the optimal point is for the low point of the swing to occur along that arc. From watching pros, it looks like they generally hit the low point just before they the clubhead is the farthest from their body from that overhead view, but I would think that it would depend partially on whether the goal was a fade or a draw. I was thinking that, for these unexpected divots, the clubhead was hitting it's lowest point after it had started to come back in on that arc. Kind of like if I were trying to hit down on the ball to hit a fade, but catching it too far back in the swing. Because it's not like the divots were pointed a little bit out and then a little bit in, like the diagram in iacas's link, they were all completely left. And I continue to see these patterns in my practice. No divot portion going right, just divot going left. So it makes me wonder if the apex of that overhead arc is occurring just before or at the ball and then the low point is happening just after that. But that almost sounds like it would require I hold lag too long, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, any thoughts on the low point of the swing compared to where it is on the arc "going out" vs "coming in"? Should I be aiming for it to occur at the apex, catching the ball before the low point (if I'm trying to play a draw)?

[mosnas]

If you think about your swing path then your divots should b in the \\ kind of shape (obviously less exaggerated) because when you make contact with the ball your swing is coming down at the ball and going straight.  But after you make contact you start your follow through and your club head will be wanting to go towards you (on the plane of your follow through) which will cause a divot that faces slightly left of target and ball flight.