Is my grip too strong?

[acegolfer]

I have been suffering a big snap hook with my mid irons for a long time. I have been trying to fix this the last 30 days with a squared setup. But my shots still end up 30 yards left of target more often than not. About 20%, I may hit a nice draw to the target.

The only way for me to hit straight (like an arrow) is

1. open stance

2. open face (face pointing 1 o'clock, 12 being the target line)

3. stand closer to the ball (helps keeping the tush line)

4. intentionally hit a cut

Can this a permanent cure to hit straight? Or should I continue to work on my swing so that it goes straight with a squared setup (perhaps 30 days is not enough)?

FYI, my USGA handicap has been trending down from 10 to 16 in the last 2 years.

Please help.

[Limpinswinger]

The title of your thread asks if your grip is too strong.  I had a friend who hit a snap hook with every club.  He had a nice looking swing, but, he gripped the club with his left thumb at the 3:00 O'Clock position.  I suggested that he try turning his hand counter clockwise so that his thumb was at about 1:00 O'Clock.  The result was an easy draw. The funny thing is that he didn't like the way it felt and went back to his predictable snap hook.  I guess he was comfortable with what he was familiar with and felt he could manage it.

So, the question is begged, how are you currently gripping your clubs.

[acegolfer]

Originally Posted by Limpinswinger

The title of your thread asks if your grip is too strong.  I had a friend who hit a snap hook with every club.  He had a nice looking swing, but, he gripped the club with his left thumb at the 3:00 O'Clock position.  I suggested that he try turning his hand counter clockwise so that his thumb was at about 1:00 O'Clock.  The result was an easy draw. The funny thing is that he didn't like the way it felt and went back to his predictable snap hook.  I guess he was comfortable with what he was familiar with and felt he could manage it.

So, the question is begged, how are you currently gripping your clubs.

My thumb was about at 2 o'clock. If I put my thumb at 1 o'clock, then the club face opens to 1 o'clock with my old setup. This is what I meant by

"2. open face (face pointing 1 o'clock, 12 being the target line) "

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by acegolfer

My thumb was about at 2 o'clock. If I put my thumb at 1 o'clock, then the club face opens to 1 o'clock with my old setup. This is what I meant by

"2. open face (face pointing 1 o'clock, 12 being the target line)"

2 O'Clock is a pretty strong grip, but, not that unusual, IMO.  I'm not sure how you know exactly where your club face is at contact unless you have recorded yourself with an HD high speed camera.  What happens to your ball flight when you hit with your thumb at 1 O'Clock?

[acegolfer]

Originally Posted by Limpinswinger

2 O'Clock is a pretty strong grip, but, not that unusual, IMO.  I'm not sure how you know exactly where your club face is at contact unless you have recorded yourself with an HD high speed camera.  What happens to your ball flight when you hit with your thumb at 1 O'Clock?

To answer your questions,

1. The position of my club face mentioned above (1 vs 12 o'clock) is at address with my normal hand position.

2. As stated in the OP, if I

1. open stance

2. open face (face pointing 1 o'clock, 12 being the target line)

3. stand closer to the ball (helps keeping the tush line)

4. intentionally hit a cut

then with a smooth swing, the ball flight is straight and lands about 5 yards right of target with 6i. My natural misses with this setup is a 10-yd draw (landing 5 yd left of target) when my old swing creeps in.

What do you think? Can this be a long term solution? Or should I continue to fix such that it has square face/square path to the target at impact?

[mdl]

I'm a bit confused.  If you set up the club face square to the target line, then take a grip slightly weaker than normal, the club face ends up open to the target?  Doesn't that mean that you're setting up with a grip with the thumb at 1 o'clock, then rotating back to having the thumb at your standard 2 o'clock before starting your swing?  So really what you're changing is the position of the club face at setup, not the strength of your grip?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mdl

I'm a bit confused.  If you set up the club face square to the target line, then take a grip slightly weaker than normal, the club face ends up open to the target?  Doesn't that mean that you're setting up with a grip with the thumb at 1 o'clock, then rotating back to having the thumb at your standard 2 o'clock before starting your swing?  So really what you're changing is the position of the club face at setup, not the strength of your grip?

No. If "neutral" is the thumb at 1:30, and you set up with the thumb at 12:30 but the face square, it will want to return at impact to 1:30, opening the face.

Just like if you set your thumb at 2:30, and it returns at 1:30, that closes the face.

[acegolfer]

Originally Posted by mdl

I'm a bit confused.  If you set up the club face square to the target line, then take a grip slightly weaker than normal, the club face ends up open to the target?  Doesn't that mean that you're setting up with a grip with the thumb at 1 o'clock, then rotating back to having the thumb at your standard 2 o'clock before starting your swing?  So really what you're changing is the position of the club face at setup, not the strength of your grip?

Sorry for not being clear.

Here's what I'm doing to open the club face.

1. I don't change the grip strength relative to my body. In other words, I see the same number of knuckles at address.

2. At address, I rotate the club clockwise 30 degrees. At the end, my thumb is at the 1 o'clock position relative to the club but 2 o'clock relative to my body. Hence club face is open at address but at impact it squares relative to my swing (in-out) path.

Hope this clarifies.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by acegolfer

1. I don't change the grip strength relative to my body. In other words, I see the same number of knuckles at address.

2. At address, I rotate the club clockwise 30 degrees. At the end, my thumb is at the 1 o'clock position relative to the club but 2 o'clock relative to my body. Hence club face is open at address but at impact it squares relative to my swing (in-out) path.

Why don't you just figure out how the hands need to hinge and operate for consistency, then grip the club so that it is square at impact with that hinge, then fix your body mechanics?  With a neutral grip, and neutral hinge, the body and arms are the only things affecting shot shape.  The hands don't play a role in squaring the clubface because it's already "square" and all it takes is the same body motion to hit the same shot over and over.

[HawkeyeDan]

I am not sure what the problem is...with this set up you sound like you have a pretty manageable and consistent miss.  Why change anything?

I always seem to hear the "but, will it hinder me in the long run" argument...I guess I say play what works and see if the "long run" happens at all.  If it does, then make some changes.  If it doesn't, you should play some pretty good golf.  Are you looking for justification?  The hole doesn't care about how, it cares about how many.

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by acegolfer

Sorry for not being clear.

Here's what I'm doing to open the club face.

1. I don't change the grip strength relative to my body. In other words, I see the same number of knuckles at address.

2. At address, I rotate the club clockwise 30 degrees. At the end, my thumb is at the 1 o'clock position relative to the club but 2 o'clock relative to my body. Hence club face is open at address but at impact it squares relative to my swing (in-out) path.

Hope this clarifies.

Hmmm!  I'm confused by both of your last 2 posts.  Your grip strength is only relevant to, and relative to, your club face when it is square to the target line.  Are you saying that you address the ball with an open club face?  Unless you are trying to block the ball out to the right, or swing outside in as in a sand shot, I don't see the point of that.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by iacas

No. If "neutral" is the thumb at 1:30, and you set up with the thumb at 12:30 but the face square, it will want to return at impact to 1:30, opening the face.

Just like if you set your thumb at 2:30, and it returns at 1:30, that closes the face.

I must be misunderstanding, cause this reads to me like you're saying there's only a single o'clock position the thumb can have (or at least "wants" to have) at impact, but obviously that's not true.  There are guys that set up with the club face square with the thumb at 12 and others with the club face square and the thumb at 2 yet both are capable of hitting shots that start at the target and don't bend, so obviously they came to impact with a square face and the thumb at different o'clocks, and the amount of rotation their hands "want" to make into impact is different.

[Leftygolfer]

Grip is a a hard thing to change IMO.  You can play good golf with a strong grip.  I've always had a strong grip.  My right thumb is around 10:30.  I've tried to weaken it but just couldn't do it.  For me, making the change wasn't getting the results I wanted.  My contact got worse, distance went down, and it was bad.

But best of luck.  Some say grip is easy to change and can take it to the course pretty quickly.