I'm a beginner so please tell me what is right

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

This scenario is often played incorrectly in casual golf.  The concept of Known or Virtual Certainty with regards to Water Hazards is not commonly followed correctly.

True, but in my experience, it's uncommon to actually meet the requirement. Where I've played, I'd say it's at best 50/50 that you have a good enough view of the hazard to be able to say that the ball is "known or virtually certain" to be in it. (Especially because even seeing the spash doesn't satisfy the rules.) This is one of those bent rules that I don't think it's worthwhile harping over.

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Thanks for this. Presumably finding the ball in the hazard, or someone playing a parallel hole confirming they saw it enter the hazard is sufficient.

Our club rules know it all always claims that if you find the ball in the hazard after hitting the provisional then the provisional is your ball in play, presumably because that is one of your options for a ball in a hazard. This always seemed extreme and wrong, thanks for clearing it up.

Finding the ball in the hazard wins, but merely seeing the ball enter isn't always enough unless you also see that there is no way for it to have exited (e.g., the ball sometimes skips off the water and exits).

Unless there is nowhere that your ball could reasonably be lost that is not in the hazard, your resident know-it-all is mistaken. On some courses around here, you'd be justified in playing a provisional on any ball not in the fairway, so I'd say that in the absence of near certainty that the ball is lying in the hazard, a provisional is warranted.

So yeah, tell your friend that the rule is "You may play a provisional if your ball might be lost outside a hazard." That is quite different from his rule, which is "You may play a provisional unless your ball might be lost inside a hazard." In reality, if you find your ball in the hazard or somehow obtain certain knowledge that it is in there, you abandon your provisional.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

Thanks for this. Presumably finding the ball in the hazard, or someone playing a parallel hole confirming they saw it enter the hazard is sufficient.

Our club rules know it all always claims that if you find the ball in the hazard after hitting the provisional then the provisional is your ball in play, presumably because that is one of your options for a ball in a hazard. This always seemed extreme and wrong, thanks for clearing it up.

You are correct that either finding the ball in he hazard, or witness testimony that the ball went in the hazard can be used in determining whether or not one can play under Rule 26 (Hazard).  Your know it all would only be correct if there was not virtual certainty that the ball was in the hazard, and the ball was found in the hazard after a 5 minute search .  In that case you original is lost and you must play your provisional.

The other thing to remember is if there is Virtual Certainty that the ball is in the Hazard, you are not allowed to play a provisional.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by zeg

True, but in my experience, it's uncommon to actually meet the requirement. Where I've played, I'd say it's at best 50/50 that you have a good enough view of the hazard to be able to say that the ball is "known or virtually certain" to be in it. (Especially because even seeing the spash doesn't satisfy the rules.) This is one of those bent rules that I don't think it's worthwhile harping over.

No disagreement here.  You'd probably breach 6-7 (Slow Play) just trying to explain it.

[Jefferey13]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Good Lord!   Where do people get their information from?

What do you think the word "provisional" means in a non golfing context?

It wouldn't be a "provisional" if he couldn't find his first one and play it.

But.....if the first one goes in a hazard, he can't find it and then play it. The other ball is the one in play.

So you just thought it would be fun to be a jerk and then proceed to give no information of value? I was making a statement, there was no question attached to the part you quoted. If you have a problem with my post ignore it.

[Jefferey13]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

A Provisional Ball can be played for only two reasons:

1) A ball that may be lost outside a hazard.

2) A ball that may be out of bounds.

After having played a provisional ball, the provisional must be abandoned if your original ball is found within 5 minutes of searching.  Doesn't matter who finds it or whether of not you actually want someone to find it.

However, if you continue to play your provisional, making a stroke at your provisional from a place where the original is likely to be, or a place closer to the hole than that place, then your original is lost.  Once you have done this, doesn't matter if the original ball is subsequently found within the 5 minute search period, it's still deemed to be lost.

Here are 3 decisions that address some of the things that can come up when dealing with the above.

Thanks for the good info. Answered my questions. I think it would be funny to see one guy running for the hole to tap it in while the opponent is running for the trees to find his first ball.

[Shorty]

So you just thought it would be fun to be a jerk and then proceed to give no information of value? I was making a statement, there was no question attached to the part you quoted. If you have a problem with my post ignore it.

My apologies. I misread the first part of your post. My mistake.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by downtownfish

We(the foursome) were thinking about letting him play both balls out,

Playing 2 balls (rule 3-3) is not permitted in matchplay.