Lifting the Flagstick

[KevCarter]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

All that said, if I'm playing in a competition, I'm not playing my stroke until you move away from the hole.  If you don't do it on your own, I will ask you to do so.  If I'm standing near the hole and am instructed to leave the flagstick in, I will immediately move away from it, both to satisfy the rule and as a point of etiquette.

I agree with this paragraph 100%.

Kevin

[Rudyprimo]

In my opinion, there wouldn't be a penalty to the player hitting the ball, nor the person attending the flagstick.  It's already explained and clear the person hitting the ball wouldn't incur a penalty.  And rule 17-2 says" if someone attends the flagstick without the players authority or prior knowledge".  In this case, the player had prior knowledge.  She saw her partner standing close to the flagstick, within an arms length.  Anyone standing within an arms length of the flagstick is said to be attending it, no matter anything else.  The person would have only incurred the penalty if they had walked away more than an arms length of the flagstick, and then hurried back to it and pulled it while or after the stroke was being played and the ball was still moving and might be influenced by it.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Rudyprimo

In my opinion, there wouldn't be a penalty to the player hitting the ball, nor the person attending the flagstick.  It's already explained and clear the person hitting the ball wouldn't incur a penalty.  And rule 17-2 says" if someone attends the flagstick without the players authority or prior knowledge".  In this case, the player had prior knowledge.  She saw her partner standing close to the flagstick, within an arms length.  Anyone standing within an arms length of the flagstick is said to be attending it, no matter anything else.  The person would have only incurred the penalty if they had walked away more than an arms length of the flagstick, and then hurried back to it and pulled it while or after the stroke was being played and the ball was still moving and might be influenced by it.

So do you mean that I have to go and physically remove the person standing next to the flag if they do not obey my exact orders of "not lifting the flag" and at the same time move away from the flag?

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Rudyprimo

In my opinion, there wouldn't be a penalty to the player hitting the ball, nor the person attending the flagstick.  It's already explained and clear the person hitting the ball wouldn't incur a penalty.  And rule 17-2 says" if someone attends the flagstick without the players authority or prior knowledge".  In this case, the player had prior knowledge.  She saw her partner standing close to the flagstick, within an arms length.  Anyone standing within an arms length of the flagstick is said to be attending it, no matter anything else.  The person would have only incurred the penalty if they had walked away more than an arms length of the flagstick, and then hurried back to it and pulled it while or after the stroke was being played and the ball was still moving and might be influenced by it.

You have ignored the key words in 17-2 which affect this case.

'If ...., without the player's authority ..... removes .... the flagstick ....'

This flagstick was removed without the player's authority. 17-2 applies, not 17-1.

Attending is not the issue.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

You have ignored the key words in 17-2 which affect this case.

'If ...., without the player's authority ..... removes .... the flagstick ....'

This flagstick was removed without the player's authority. 17-2 applies, not 17-1.

Attending is not the issue.

Good call.  I was right in my assumption that once permission to remove it was denied, he could no longer be deemed to be attending the flagstick, regardless of where he was standing.  He did not have the player's authority, tacit or otherwise.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

On another note, if you tell someone to not attend the flag and they still stand by it, you're saying Note 1 still applies?  Never really thought about that.  If that's the case I agree it would be the player's responsibility to make sure the other player moved away from the flag.

Originally Posted by Rulesman

You have ignored the key words in 17-2 which affect this case.

'If ...., without the player's authority ..... removes .... the flagstick ....'

This flagstick was removed without the player's authority. 17-2 applies, not 17-1.

Attending is not the issue.

Looked into this further.  Rulesman is correct.  The player did not have authority, standing close to the flag does not change that.