club weight

[ulle73]

recently ive found out that of all my clubs in the bag, its the 54* wedge i always always hits dead straight, its never off the line. And ironicly, that wedge is +1 inch, im 5,7. And also, the grip is a mid-size tour velvet golf pride. On all my other irons, i have standard lenght and standard grips. My other wedges are callaway x series jaws. They feel much much lighter then my 54*, so what is it that makes the 54* feel so much heavier? the extra +1 inch? or the mid-size grip? or the shaft? a DG s200?

Im playing x-22 tour irons, and they feel extremly light comparing to my 54* titleist spin milled. Thinking of getting a new set, a bit heavier irons. Anyone know a good set of irons with a heavier shaft?

[ulle73]

btw, looked up the different grips, and they weigh about the same, 52g on my x22 tour irons, and 53.5g on my 54* spin milled wedge... and the shaft weigh about the same as well... x22 = 123 g and 54* = 127 g (without adding the extra +1)

what can it be?!

[glock35ipsc]

All heads get progressively heavier down through the set, usually by 7 grams each in the case of the irons, as does the overall club weight.  My 5 iron head, for example, weighs 254 grams, where my sand wedge head weighs 296 grams.  The sand wedge (54° to 58°) will generally be the heaviest head in the set, and the lob wedge will be slightly lighter than sand wedge, by just a few grams.

The advertised shaft weights are raw weights, what the shaft weighs before tipping for flex and before butt trimming for final playing length.

The extra head weight, the heavier shaft, the larger grip, the extra length..... they all add up to a heavier club, and one with a higher swing weight.

Just because you hit the 54° wedge straight doesn't necessarily mean that you need heavier shafts or heavier overall clubs.  Were you fit for your irons?  Or the wedges?  You didn't mention what you typical shot was with the other wedges and irons.

[glock35ipsc]

BTW - If the X-22 Tour irons are stock, the shaft weights would be:

Manufacturer	Flex	Weight	Torque	Kickpoint
Royal Precision	5.0	120-108	low	flighted
Royal Precision	5.5	125-113	low	flighted
Royal Precision	6.0	129-116	low	flighted

Stock length for the Vokey should be 35.25", but I don't know what the head weight is for sure.  I've heard around 304-305 grams but can't be certain.  I have heard people say that the Vokey wedges are pretty head-heavy.

[Righty to Lefty]

Aside of having the proper shaft and flex....I think that having the proper total weight of each club is the most important aspect.  I put Tour Lock/Opti Vibe weight in all my clubs and it has been the biggest factor in my golf game because I now feel the clubhead tracking around me at all times when before I was losing association with the club.  I like high swingweight and high total weight and I think this came from my playing baseball but I have no desire to hit anyone's clubs unless they are weighted when I try them.  I don't buy into all this clubs getting lighter and lighter.  I believe that golfer's should swing the heaviest club that they can handle because the extra weight more than makes up for a mph or two of swingspeed lost and you are forgiven even more on offcenter contact.  Also I think that this belief and opinion comes from me playing baseball because we never swung the lightest bat.  We always go for the one that is the heaviest that we can still catch up to a good fastball with.  Increases in weight also increase the MOI of the club and that equals more forgiveness even when you miss the sweetspot. Just my opinion.

[ulle73]

interesting that you think that you should play a heavy club as you can, cause thats what i think as well, or at least, it fits my play. What was it that you put on your club? the extra weight? and where can i get it?

[ulle73]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

All heads get progressively heavier down through the set, usually by 7 grams each in the case of the irons, as does the overall club weight.  My 5 iron head, for example, weighs 254 grams, where my sand wedge head weighs 296 grams.  The sand wedge (54° to 58°) will generally be the heaviest head in the set, and the lob wedge will be slightly lighter than sand wedge, by just a few grams.

The advertised shaft weights are raw weights, what the shaft weighs before tipping for flex and before butt trimming for final playing length.

The extra head weight, the heavier shaft, the larger grip, the extra length..... they all add up to a heavier club, and one with a higher swing weight.

Just because you hit the 54° wedge straight doesn't necessarily mean that you need heavier shafts or heavier overall clubs.  Were you fit for your irons?  Or the wedges?  You didn't mention what you typical shot was with the other wedges and irons.

thanks for all the info :) i did not get fit for my irons nor wedges. My typical shot with all irons except the lobwedge are draws, the 60* are a fade or a push. Seems so weird, since i never ever hits fades/push...

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by ulle73

thanks for all the info :) i did not get fit for my irons nor wedges. My typical shot with all irons except the lobwedge are draws, the 60* are a fade or a push. Seems so weird, since i never ever hits fades/push...

So, you draw the long, mid and short irons.  Hit the 54° dead straight, and push the 60°.  I'm thinking either a length issue, a lie angle issue, or a combination of both.  I'd be curious to know; that if you were to grip down about an inch or so on your irons, if your shot shape would change, since gripping down that much would effectively flatten the lie angle a bit.

[ulle73]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

So, you draw the long, mid and short irons.  Hit the 54° dead straight, and push the 60°.  I'm thinking either a length issue, a lie angle issue, or a combination of both.  I'd be curious to know; that if you were to grip down about an inch or so on your irons, if your shot shape would change, since gripping down that much would effectively flatten the lie angle a bit.

thats what i already do :P i grip all the way down, since im pretty short.

[Righty to Lefty]

I use Tour Lock/OptiVibe weights in all my clubs. There is one weight that is inserted inside the shaft and the other one in the butt end of the club. Both are used to find the perfect balance point of each club along with adding total weight and manipulating swingweight.  I have on average 75 grams internally in all my irons and wedges with 40 gram counterweights.  For me the extra weight give me the perception that my clubs are heavy so I engage big muscles to move them and it really has made my hands very passive as I believe they should be in the golf swing.  I also like having weight near my hands because it activates the proper grip pressure for me.

I feel like a club should have heft to it and allow you to hit against that weight.  For me if the club is too light I feel like I want to control it instead of letting it track it's arch.  No one ever gets handsy swingin an ax....they use the heft of the ax and assist its natural momentum to split the wood. Not sayin a golf club should be that heavy but I'm sayin that there is a perfect weight for everyone that will allow them to play their best golf and simply assist the momentum of the club.

The only difference between off the rack clubs for a female and a male is likely a grip and shaft flex.  Well if I'm stronger than her so shouldn't my clubs weight more than hers....but companies don't offer custom total weight.  If we were gonna go play baseball or softball the  bat that she would pick out would be much different than mine.  What makes golf clubs any different?

www.tourlockpro.com

[1badbadger]

recently ive found out that of all my clubs in the bag, its the 54* wedge i always always hits dead straight, its never off the line. And ironicly, that wedge is +1 inch, im 5,7. And also, the grip is a mid-size tour velvet golf pride. On all my other irons, i have standard lenght and standard grips. My other wedges are callaway x series jaws. They feel much much lighter then my 54*, so what is it that makes the 54* feel so much heavier? the extra +1 inch? or the mid-size grip? or the shaft? a DG s200?

Im playing x-22 tour irons, and they feel extremly light comparing to my 54* titleist spin milled. Thinking of getting a new set, a bit heavier irons. Anyone know a good set of irons with a heavier shaft?

Part of it is that your 54* has a heavier swingweight to start with...a stock Vokey is D-5, your irons are probably about D-2 and your other wedges are probably between D-2 to D-4.  But the extra 1" adds 6 swingweight points which is a lot.  The midsize grip actually reduces the swingweight a little, but it's still probably close to E-0, which will definitely make it feel heavier than the rest of your clubs.

I use Tour Lock/OptiVibe weights in all my clubs. There is one weight that is inserted inside the shaft and the other one in the butt end of the club. Both are used to find the perfect balance point of each club along with adding total weight and manipulating swingweight.  I have on average 75 grams internally in all my irons and wedges with 40 gram counterweights.  For me the extra weight give me the perception that my clubs are heavy so I engage big muscles to move them and it really has made my hands very passive as I believe they should be in the golf swing.  I also like having weight near my hands because it activates the proper grip pressure for me.

I feel like a club should have heft to it and allow you to hit against that weight.  For me if the club is too light I feel like I want to control it instead of letting it track it's arch.  No one ever gets handsy swingin an ax....they use the heft of the ax and assist its natural momentum to split the wood. Not sayin a golf club should be that heavy but I'm sayin that there is a perfect weight for everyone that will allow them to play their best golf and simply assist the momentum of the club.

The only difference between off the rack clubs for a female and a male is likely a grip and shaft flex.  Well if I'm stronger than her so shouldn't my clubs weight more than hers....but companies don't offer custom total weight.  If we were gonna go play baseball or softball the  bat that she would pick out would be much different than mine.  What makes golf clubs any different?

www.tourlockpro.com

There was a similar debate in the early '90's among billiard players on what type of cue is better for break shots.  Some thought a light cue was better because more speed could be generated, while others felt that the increased mass of a heavy cue was more beneficial.  Whether it's pool cues or golf clubs there is a point of diminishing returns and too light or too heavy can cause issues.  There are actually more differences in ladies clubs than just the shaft flex and grip size...they are typically lighter and shorter as well.  In my experience as a club fitter, usually the faster a player swings the more weight is needed to help them feel the club during the swing (I've worked with a lot of ball players, and hands down they tend to have some of the highest swing speeds I've seen).  But getting wrapped up in a lot of numbers can be misleading...I've seen a 3lb club that weighs D-2 (an avg driver weighs .75lbs or less)!

[Righty to Lefty]

Part of it is that your 54* has a heavier swingweight to start with...a stock Vokey is D-5, your irons are probably about D-2 and your other wedges are probably between D-2 to D-4.  But the extra 1" adds 6 swingweight points which is a lot.  The midsize grip actually reduces the swingweight a little, but it's still probably close to E-0, which will definitely make it feel heavier than the rest of your clubs.

There was a similar debate in the early '90's among billiard players on what type of cue is better for break shots.  Some thought a light cue was better because more speed could be generated, while others felt that the increased mass of a heavy cue was more beneficial.  Whether it's pool cues or golf clubs there is a point of diminishing returns and too light or too heavy can cause issues.  There are actually more differences in ladies clubs than just the shaft flex and grip size...they are typically lighter and shorter as well.  In my experience as a club fitter, usually the faster a player swings the more weight is needed to help them feel the club during the swing (I've worked with a lot of ball players, and hands down they tend to have some of the highest swing speeds I've seen).  But getting wrapped up in a lot of numbers can be misleading...I've seen a 3lb club that weighs D-2 (an avg driver weighs .75lbs or less)!

There really isn't that much of a difference between a women's and a man's golf clubs.  You can't cut them too short because then all of the yardages will run into each other.  Their drivers are also very close in specs as you can see from Callaway's website. The women's driver is 1 inch shorter, 6-9 grams of shaft weight, and only 4 swingweight points less (8 grams). The women's grip might be 10 grams less also.  Therefore a woman is swinging nearly the same club as a man would.  Twenty or 30 grams isn't much of a difference when we are talking a 100 lb woman and a 200 pound man.  I still think that a woman will feel more of the weight of the club simply because it will feel heavier in regards to total weight because her level of strength won't be as high as a man. In my experience with total weight fittings my opinion would be to swing the heaviest club that you can handle just before the point of diminishing returns.  Swing weight is a personal preference and is up to the preference of the golfer on how they wan the weight distributed throughout the club.

Mens 2015 XR Driver Product Specs

View All Custom Shafts

Model	Loft	Availability	Length	Lie	CC	Swing Weight
9°	Adjustable	RH / LH	46"	Adjustable	460	D3
10.5°	Adjustable	RH / LH	46"	Adjustable	460	D3
12°	Adjustable	RH / LH Custom Only	46"	Adjustable	460	D3
13.5°	Adjustable	RH / LH Custom Only	46"	Adjustable	460	D3

Project X LZ

Manufacturer	Flex	Shaft Weight	Torque	Kickpoint
True Temper	Light	53	low-mid	mid
True Temper	Regular	54	low-mid	mid
True Temper	Stiff	56	low-mid	high

Women's 2015 XR Driver Product Specs

View All Custom Shafts

Model	10.5°
Loft	Adjustable
Availability	RH / LH Custom Only
Length	45"
Lie	Adjustable
CC	460
Swing Weight	C8
Model	12°
Loft	Adjustable
Availability	RH / LH Custom Only
Length	45"
Lie	Adjustable
CC	460
Swing Weight	C8
Model	13.5°
Loft	Adjustable
Availability	RH Only
Length	45"
Lie	Adjustable
CC	460
Swing Weight	C8

Model	Loft	Availability	Length	Lie	CC	Swing Weight
10.5°	Adjustable	RH / LH Custom Only	45"	Adjustable	460	C8
12°	Adjustable	RH / LH Custom Only	45"	Adjustable	460	C8
13.5° Project X LZ Manufacturer Flex Shaft Weight Torque Kickpoint True Temper Women's 47 mid low	Adjustable	RH Only	45"	Adjustable	460	C8

[Get It There]

This is really interesting and it seems to make a lot of sense, even though I have never tried it. But I have noted that as clubs have gotten lighter, with lighter shafts, I have actually found them harder to hit than older, heavier clubs. I am not as tall as you but I'm pretty strong, and some of these clubs feel like a plastic cup hooked to the end of a straw. No feel whatsoever. So my question is, is the 75-gram insert you use considered to be a lot, and for those of us who are new to this concept, is there a lesser weight combo worth trying to get the benefits?

[Righty to Lefty]

This is really interesting and it seems to make a lot of sense, even though I have never tried it. But I have noted that as clubs have gotten lighter, with lighter shafts, I have actually found them harder to hit than older, heavier clubs. I am not as tall as you but I'm pretty strong, and some of these clubs feel like a plastic cup hooked to the end of a straw. No feel whatsoever. So my question is, is the 75-gram insert you use considered to be a lot, and for those of us who are new to this concept, is there a lesser weight combo worth trying to get the benefits?

There are many different weights that you can experiment with to find your blend that you like. I lowered the weights in my clubs to 30 grams in all of them but I have them 17 inches inside the shaft and so the swingweights are E1 for the irons and F1 for the driver. 75 grams would be considered a lot  for most people so I would suggest 20 and 30 grams weights to feel how they work.  To me the most important weights are the opti vibe weights that go inside the shaft because they can be used to add swing weight points which is what I look for.  For my drivers, hybrids, or any club that I can drill a hole in I use hotmelt in the club head because it is cheaper and I can toe bias the weight to make them feel the way I like as it makes the club head feel more dense to me.

[Lihu]

This is really interesting and it seems to make a lot of sense, even though I have never tried it. But I have noted that as clubs have gotten lighter, with lighter shafts, I have actually found them harder to hit than older, heavier clubs. I am not as tall as you but I'm pretty strong, and some of these clubs feel like a plastic cup hooked to the end of a straw. No feel whatsoever. So my question is, is the 75-gram insert you use considered to be a lot, and for those of us who are new to this concept, is there a lesser weight combo worth trying to get the benefits?

It's funny that I'm not the only one that feels the clubs are too light. I never had experience with the older clubs, but found I used too much "arm" with lighter clubs. I ended up putting a 136 gm steel shaft in my driver, and now I can actually swing it without the club feeling like it's getting too far in front of my swing. Here's an interesting tidbit, my son barely weighs 130 and is about my height and can swing really fast with a modern light shaft. The same club for me makes me cast and my arms get way ahead of my body. It feels "flippy". When he uses my overweight club he feels a lot more "laggy". He can still swing it, but it feels slower to him and his arms are way behind his body. I looked back at all the historically good players in the "heavy club" era, you mentioned. They are all really beefy guys. Even Ben Hogan was pretty strong looking. The modern player's arms look more like twigs. I think people with heavier arms just need heavier clubs.