Driving Irons, Are They Obsolete?

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

Are they obsolete? No, not at all. Very different to hybrids but I much prefer them to be honest - can't seem to get on with hybrids. Have a 2-iron in my Macgregor blades which is great if I'm swinging well or, more frequently, I carry a Mizuno MP-FliHi 2-iron - fantastic club.

Think Donald carries one a lot of the time. Don't need extreme distance to be able to use them - just a decent ball strike. Nothing wrong with steel shafts either.

I think Donald carries one of the other models of hybrid like the CLK, I've never seen him hit the MP Fli Hi in particular. I think they'd advertise that he uses it, being their main brand ambassador. But I could be wrong or he could have put it in the bag for one or two tourneys. Nothing wrong with steel shafts, I prefer them to be honest, but it makes it stand out from most hybrids. Just pointing that out.

Clubs like the MP Fli Hi are designed for use off the tee and have a bit of weighting to get the ball up, so someone like Luke should be able to use them. He's a somewhat high spin player anyway, using S300 shafts. But remember Luke isn't a typical player in terms of swing speed; his 110 mph average might make him a short knocker by PGA standards, but he's still miles past the average. Most players who are successful with the 2i these days are players like Woods and Woodland, who are beasts. The trick is that the 2i, especially a traditional design, is really hard to get off the ground, and even with 125mph clubhead speed it doesn't give a great trajectory, lots of roll on landing.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by njcl13

So what does a regular set of irons start with these days??,4 iron??,i'm out of sync with todays golf hence the question

There's no real uniformity anymore.  It wasn't that long ago that every set of irons was 3-PW standard.  Now there are a lot that are 4-PW, or 4-GW.  And now that you can get custom fitted at so many different places, it's easy to order whatever set you want.  You can start at 3, 4, 5, whatever, you can mix and match, just about anything.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Learn the laws of physics. Backspin + dimples + forward movement = lift. Without lift, you don't get much carry and you certainly don't get stopping power; both by the ball checking up as well as having a steeper descent angle.

We are talking about drivers, woods, and long irons. You dont want high ballooning shots, they kill distance. You do not want spin off the tee, period, unless its a short par 3. Sorry you misinterpret the laws of physics.

[LuciusWooding]

http://www.flightscope.com/index.php/Technology-Explained/trajectory-optimizer.html

165mph ball speed, which is tour average with the driver. 11˚ launch angle, reasonably close to average. 1000rpm of backspin on a 0˙ axis is the lowest the site allows, which is improbably low. This nets 224 yards of carry, under 4 seconds of hangtime and under 50 feet of height.

Change the stats to 3000rpm of spin on a 0˚ axis (which is above average for tour players) with the ball speed and launch angle the same, 277 yards of carry, 100ft height, 6.8 hangtime.

Now let's try 125mph ball speed, closer to an amateur's typical shot with driver. 1000rpm, 0 axis, 11˚ launch. 136 whopping yards of carry.

The same stats with 3000 rpm? 181 yards carry. 4500 rpm? 182 yards carry. Luckily I hit harder than this, but I'd rather carry 182 than 136.

I could spit out examples all day but believe me you have no clue what you're talking about. If the simulator accepted 0 rpm you'd see far less than even the 1000rpm numbers.

There are balls out there with no dimples that aren't affected by spin. They go straight off the face angle and never curve, get no lift from backspin. They go like 100 yards shorter than the real thing. If you were right, that no spin was good, they would go farther. Cheers.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Learn the laws of physics. Backspin + dimples + forward movement = lift. Without lift, you don't get much carry and you certainly don't get stopping power; both by the ball checking up as well as having a steeper descent angle.

Yes, at higher ball speeds, spin can cause ballooning especially at a high launch angle. But at lower ball speeds you want a decent rate of spin or else the ball won't carry. Stronger players usually have no trouble checking the ball up and they often get enough ball speed to balloon a shot. But granny needs a 16˚ driver with an LL shaft to launch it high and spin a lot or else the ball won't go 100 yards.

Most amateurs talk about wanting less spin, but the fact is they suck and want less sidespin. With an 80 mph swing, Average Joe probably wants a 12˚ driver and as much backspin as he can normally generate at that speed. Around like 100+mph is where backspin should be reduced a bit unless it's really abnormally high. At that speed, a more controlled flight can be more important to a player since they can carry the ball decently far. Generally most players will try to maximize carry on a driver, since at the highest speeds it does require a bit lower spin and launch because the ball speed is so high.

If you hit a driving iron and launch it low, you need much more spin than you'd think. The driving iron is about placement and control, especially into the wind. It's not the ideal distance tool by a long shot. Try going to the flightscope site, they have a virtual launch monitor that shows you the flight based on your input.

Also, ask Adam Scott if a little extra roll off the tee is always a good thing. He'll think it's funny. Being able to stop the ball in the limits of the fairway is important, more so than distance.

And the bolded is exactly what we are talking about. More specifically, hitting off the tee at very high ballspeeds, which requires low spin (Notice I didn't say 'no spin'/) off the tee. We are talking about driving irons, clubs swung at or near the speed of a driver, and go 240+ yards. Nobody was talking about 80 mile swing speeds, we are talking about pro's and high level golfers who swing at usually high swing speeds. There aren't many duffers shooting 95 who carry a driving iron. Either you don't understand what this thread is about, or you haven't read the OP, or the posts you are replying to.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

You do not want spin off the tee, period, unless its a short par 3.

That was you, right?

[GaijinGolfer]

For the most part they are obsolete.  Ive got a couple MP Fli-Hi in my bag and I like them but you dont see very many people carrying driving irons anymore simply because wood-like hybrids are so much easier and more user-friendly because they launch the ball higher and are more versatile in terms of lies you can hit it out of.

Mizuno is coming out with a new set of driving irons (MP-4), so there must be some demand for them but I cant imagine that its much.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

For the most part they are obsolete.  Ive got a couple MP Fli-Hi in my bag and I like them but you dont see very many people carrying driving irons anymore simply because wood-like hybrids are so much easier and more user-friendly because they launch the ball higher and are more versatile in terms of lies you can hit it out of.

Mizuno is coming out with a new set of driving irons (MP-4), so there must be some demand for them but I cant imagine that its much.

I'm an old guy and driving iron = 1 iron to me.

Is there another definition?

I found a HUGE difference between hitting a 1 iron off a tee and having it roll down a tight fairway or onto a par 3 green with no trouble in front(easy albeit with a small sweet spot) and trying to hit it off the ground onto a guarded green and stop.(impossible at my swing speed)

I suspect I'm one of the few people ever to (briefly) carry a 1 iron and 7-wood in the same bag. ;)

3 irons have got down to the loft of 2's and even strong 2's so many sets hardly have space left for a club labeled 1 or 2

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

I'm an old guy and driving iron = 1 iron to me.

Is there another definition?

I don't know, but I always imagine a "driving iron" as something similar to a 1-iron (loft-wise) but with a little bulk to it ... something that leans toward looking like a hybrid.  Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they led to the "discovery" of hybrids way back when.

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

I'm an old guy and driving iron = 1 iron to me.

Is there another definition?

I found a HUGE difference between hitting a 1 iron off a tee and having it roll down a tight fairway or onto a par 3 green with no trouble in front(easy albeit with a small sweet spot) and trying to hit it off the ground onto a guarded green and stop.(impossible at my swing speed)

I suspect I'm one of the few people ever to (briefly) carry a 1 iron and 7-wood in the same bag. ;)

3 irons have got down to the loft of 2's and even strong 2's so many sets hardly have space left for a club labeled 1 or 2

To me a driving iron is an iron with a bulkier head on it.  A 1-iron is just that, a 1-iron.  Its not the same as a driving iron.

[Goonsidious]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knight-DI-Approach-Magnum-19-Degree-Copper-Tungsten-Balanced-Body-/120930492885#ht_500wt_922

this is my driving iron. no cavity, so hopefully you dont get an illusion that it does. it's thick.

kind of like a thick slice of pie, ha.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knight-DI-Approach-Magnum-19-Degree-Copper-Tungsten-Balanced-Body-/120930492885#ht_500wt_922

this is my driving iron. no cavity, so hopefully you dont get an illusion that it does. it's thick.

kind of like a thick slice of pie, ha.

It must be crazy accurate - look at how the seller describes it:

"This is a Knight DI "Approach Magnum" 19 Degree approach wedge . Copper Tungsten Balanced Body. Stainless Steel. It is in good condition. The shaft is a steel Night. The grip is in good original condition. Measures 40 inches"

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

I honestly never see them anywhere anymore. I do own one from a purchase roughly 10 years ago, still in good condition.. but have never hit well with it. Maybe because I always thought it was for the fairway

Ernie Els had 3 of the new Callaway X-prototype utility clubs in the bag when he won the Open Championship

check out more pics here

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58537/the-sand-trap-visits-callaway-golf-razr-fit-driver-fitting-at-the-ely-callaway-performance-center