Need your opinion about a fitter that I went to.

[Sai-Jin]

I went to a club fitter to order my Miura blades and I thought that I might as well check all my equipments just so that I can have confidence in them.

The results were confusing to me to say the least. I was really surprised. So I need you guys who are experienced to share your wisdom.

========================

NOTE : I'm currently fighting a blocked shot to the right with all my clubs. This is my biggest flaw right now.

Equipments used:

R11s with Diamana Ahina 60gram S-Flex   9* loft , neutral face

6i MP68 with Project X 6.0

Ball: Pro V1x

Software used: Trackman.

Results:

Driver:

backspin: 2240        , Side spin: -130 / +170   , Launch angle: 9-11*

Ball speed: 148 - 161, average: 155mph . I forgot what my swing speed is, but 4 months ago I remember seeing between 102mph on the low side up to 112mph on the high side.

6 iron :

Spin: 3650 , Launch angle: 15.5*  (If I remember correctly)

Distance: between 184 - 192 yds, Average: 186

Swing style : heavy load , mid to late release.

plane: -1.1* / + 1.3*

Club face : 4.8* open. (I forgot if this is driver or iron)

Ball flight : All goes right. (I was quite nervous doing this fitting and a little stiff)

=====================

So the fitter wants me to go:

Driver: X-flex

Note: he also tricked me by not telling me I was swinging a Fubuki Alpha X-Flex and the results were straighter balls, same distance.

but this is after I hit multiple balls with my own shafts and I start to find my timing and swing. (I always hit bad tee shots for the first 4 holes before I straighten my shots)

Iron: Project X 4.5  or

Dynamic Gold R300 or

KBS Tour R-Flex.

Fitter told me also that a tour pro generally has a much stiffer driver shaft and a much softer iron shaft.

====================

Thus I'm really confused... for one, I'm scared of X-flex shafts... I don't think I have remotely the swing speed to load X-Flex for the driver.

And for my irons... I got off a Project X 5.5 and switched to a 6.0 after a fitter looked at me 4 months ago.

I actually called my old fitter at golfsmith and told him the info, and he plus other fitters that work with him at other Golfsmith branches told me that my equipments are balanced and the flex are not too stiff, unless something has changed over 4 months, in which the changes I notice is that I have become stronger actually.

I may have forgotten some other info, so ask me if you need to know more.

So please do share with me your wisdom.

[Sai-Jin]

No one to give me an opinion about this fitter that I wanted to use? =(

[poser]

Swing style : heavy load , mid to late release.

Not sure with your swing style why would be scared of a x flex.  All that matters is dispersion and shot shape.  I actually went from x100 to s300 and my dispersion and shot shape improved alot.

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by poser

Swing style: heavy load , mid to late release.

Not sure with your swing style why would be scared of a x flex.  All that matters is dispersion and shot shape.  I actually went from x100 to s300 and my dispersion and shot shape improved alot.

Well, I'm not swinging at 115 - 120mph ... And I think that an X-Flex would be too much for me?

Oh you went from X-Flex to S-Flex on your irons and things got better?  I remember with my PX 5.5 my dispersion was all over the place and PX6.0 actually tightens it up, unless I'm swinging smooth and slow and don't generate enough speed to load the shaft.

[Large chris]

Don't at all understand the recommendations... Your numbers are similar or faster than mine and my new set is x100 irons. I believe an awful lot of pros including Luke Donald are using this shaft.... I can't believe an r flex is going to work for you, I believe the best confirmation would be a session with the clever mizuno DNA system, as it can accurately measure the transition speed which is really important for flex. Also ( I have built my own clubs) play around with heavier swing and static weights (lead tape mid way down the shaft and on the head of a test iron). Another way of looking at it is that x100 is not ridiculously stiff, someone can confirm but maybe 8% stiffer measured in CPM. One other thing, I was measured on trackman as well and was told (in terms of inside / outside swingpaths) that the club spec can't do everything...... at some point the swinger has to get on plane....

[Sai-Jin]

Hi

THe fitter told me that first I need to fix my equipment before fixing my swing flaws and bad habits... he said that it'll make it easier.

x100 = PX 6.5 correct?

I agree with your last statement... I know I have a flaw and I want to fix my swing before I upgrade my clubs.

So I guess this fitter just wants me to pay his high fees, it seems like?

[poser]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Hi

THe fitter told me that first I need to fix my equipment before fixing my swing flaws and bad habits... he said that it'll make it easier.

x100 = PX 6.5 correct?

I agree with your last statement... I know I have a flaw and I want to fix my swing before I upgrade my clubs.

So I guess this fitter just wants me to pay his high fees, it seems like?

Seems like that to me.  It's the indian not the arrow.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Thus I'm really confused... for one, I'm scared of X-flex shafts... I don't think I have remotely the swing speed to load X-Flex for the driver.

I don't know much about the specifics of load and all that jazz, but I can tell you that I have an X flex shaft in my driver and my swing speed is no faster than yours (around 105 if the golfsmith sim is to be believed) and I love it.  My current driver is a RazR Fit with a Kaili X-Flex 70.  My "old" (relative term, I only got it 3 or 4 months prior) was a Titleist 910D3 with the Ahina S flex 72 shaft.  Both 45" long.  The Titleist was fitted for me at Golfsmith on their sim, and the Razr Fit I got at the Ely Callaway Performance Center, fitted out on the range.

The bottom line is that I have compared them side by side a few times and there is no discernable difference in distance, but there is a very noticeable difference in dispersion ... the driver with the X-flex (Razr Fit) is a lot straighter than the S flex (D3).

I can't say for sure if its all, most, partly, or not at all attributable to the shaft - maybe it's all the clubhead, who knows - but I do know that I am now not scared of an X flex shaft.

Hope that helps.  Oh, and for the record I just got fitted for new irons (i20's) and am getting KBS Tour 120's if that means anything.

[Large chris]

I think x100 is normally px 6.0 but my view is not to get too hung up on project x - simply because x100 is popular for a reason, I have spent some time getting opinions on forums before committing to them myself. What you will find is that very few (well no one really) people are unhappy when they go to the x100, but more doubt is expressed by some about px. X100 is cheapest as well, yes I know you are getting miuras, but you can take confidence from all those great players using the x100 including tiger. And I definitely agree on the driver dispersion as well. Like many people, you have been scared by continuous pro advice that too many golfers are using too stiff shafts. I am sure this is not the case for you on your figures - mizuno DNA to be sure. Just recently saw references to hogan and moe Morgan both using incredibly heavy and stiff irons, and they were not big guys.

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I don't know much about the specifics of load and all that jazz, but I can tell you that I have an X flex shaft in my driver and my swing speed is no faster than yours (around 105 if the golfsmith sim is to be believed) and I love it.  My current driver is a RazR Fit with a Kaili X-Flex 70.  My "old" (relative term, I only got it 3 or 4 months prior) was a Titleist 910D3 with the Ahina S flex 72 shaft.  Both 45" long.  The Titleist was fitted for me at Golfsmith on their sim, and the Razr Fit I got at the Ely Callaway Performance Center, fitted out on the range.

The bottom line is that I have compared them side by side a few times and there is no discernable difference in distance, but there is a very noticeable difference in dispersion ... the driver with the X-flex (Razr Fit) is a lot straighter than the S flex (D3).

I can't say for sure if its all, most, partly, or not at all attributable to the shaft - maybe it's all the clubhead, who knows - but I do know that I am now not scared of an X flex shaft.

Hope that helps.  Oh, and for the record I just got fitted for new irons (i20's) and am getting KBS Tour 120's if that means anything.

THanks for sharing. That's great. THe X-Flex for sure tightens the dispersion. But if you like the feel, it's probably because the Kaili has a softer tip to the Ahina.

Hmm... I'm going to hit some Rayon X-Flexes and see how I like them.

Congrats on the new iron set.

Originally Posted by Large chris

I think x100 is normally px 6.0 but my view is not to get too hung up on project x - simply because x100 is popular for a reason, I have spent some time getting opinions on forums before committing to them myself.

What you will find is that very few (well no one really) people are unhappy when they go to the x100, but more doubt is expressed by some about px.

X100 is cheapest as well, yes I know you are getting miuras, but you can take confidence from all those great players using the x100 including tiger.

And I definitely agree on the driver dispersion as well.

Like many people, you have been scared by continuous pro advice that too many golfers are using too stiff shafts. I am sure this is not the case for you on your figures - mizuno DNA to be sure.

Just recently saw references to hogan and moe Morgan both using incredibly heavy and stiff irons, and they were not big guys.

That's good to know. I'm going to actually switch from a PX6.0 to a PXi 6.0 though. The butt end is softer according to true temper and I do like how it feels compared to the rigid PX6.0.

About the x100 , I actually don't like the way the steps look on an iron shaft. So I've always had the PX or C-taper look. .

is Mizuno DNA the little device that is attached to the iron shaft when you got fitted on the Mizuno fitting cart? I double checked my irons today and the club fitter at Golfsmith recommends PX6.0 as primary and if I want to go softer for easier swing go to PX5.5. He also said that there is no way I should be playing an R-Flex when I hit my 6i 188yds - 192yds with the MP68 + PX6.0

Btw, ball trajectory is my preference right? I shouldn't listen blindly to what a fitter tell me? The Miura fitter told me that I need a PX5.0 because he wants to see me hit my ball higher ...

(I have a mid low ball flight which is flat and penetrating)

[Large chris]

THanks for sharing. That's great. THe X-Flex for sure tightens the dispersion. But if you like the feel, it's probably because the Kaili has a softer tip to the Ahina. Hmm... I'm going to hit some Rayon X-Flexes and see how I like them. Congrats on the new iron set. That's good to know. I'm going to actually switch from a PX6.0 to a PXi 6.0 though. The butt end is softer according to true temper and I do like how it feels compared to the rigid PX6.0. About the x100 , I actually don't like the way the steps look on an iron shaft. So I've always had the PX or C-taper look. . is Mizuno DNA the little device that is attached to the iron shaft when you got fitted on the Mizuno fitting cart? I double checked my irons today and the club fitter at Golfsmith recommends PX6.0 as primary and if I want to go softer for easier swing go to PX5.5. He also said that there is no way I should be playing an R-Flex when I hit my 6i 188yds - 192yds with the MP68 + PX6.0 Btw, ball trajectory is my preference right? I shouldn't listen blindly to what a fitter tell me? The Miura fitter told me that I need a PX5.0 because he wants to see me hit my ball higher ... (I have a mid low ball flight which is flat and penetrating)

Just to say surprised at the miura fitter recommendation, I thought there weren't many of them and they were all really well qualified...... My view ( not qualified at all!) is that a flat launch is fine but more spin required to get the ball to climb. Pros are doing this by really compressing the ball with forward shaft lean, and I just think this is more achievable the heavier and stiffer you go..

[Mr. Desmond]

If you''re hitting the ball too low and flat, it seems the fitter was trying to avoid telling you about a swing issue, and instead, advised going to a softer flex. That doesn't seem like good advice. He should have said - your flight is not optimal because of this swing issue - and explained the issue - which a launch monitor should help explain - and then you could have decided whether to adjust your swing for the issue.

Of course, I know fitters who are afraid to tell guys they need to go to senior or regular flex because they fear the guys will walk out the door - so they double or triple soft step the shafts so it says stiff. Another disservice.

[Sai-Jin]

It's true that Pros compress the ball to the turf, but they do it much more so than people like me.

I don't know if it's supposed to be heavier and stiffer or not... but I told some other random fitters the above results and they said that

the fitter who wants me to go X-Flex on Woods and R-FLex on iron is crazy.

However, I am going to swap out my PX6.0 with PXi6.0.... I like that new shaft ... I think it's less harsh.

[Beachcomber]

Why the hell would you go regular flex on your irons?  If you're hitting the 6i 184 to 192yds... Your swing speed is in the 85 to 89mph range (guesstimate).  Which scales relative to your driver swing speed of ~ 104mph.  I think you'd be making a big mistake by going with regular flex shafts.

Get the proper shaft - and then hone your mechanics.  Blocking it to the right is most likely a swing flaw.  If you have too much lag - you could be delivering the clubface with an open face (which falls inline with what your OP).

My guess is that you need to do a better job of monitoring pressure point #1 and #3.

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Why the hell would you go regular flex on your irons?  If you're hitting the 6i 184 to 192yds... Your swing speed is in the 85 to 89mph range (guesstimate).  Which scales relative to your driver swing speed of ~ 104mph.  I think you'd be making a big mistake by going with regular flex shafts.

Get the proper shaft - and then hone your mechanics.  Blocking it to the right is most likely a swing flaw.  If you have too much lag - you could be delivering the clubface with an open face (which falls inline with what your OP).

My guess is that you need to do a better job of monitoring pressure point #1 and #3.

Yes, I remember now seeing 82-88mph on 6i on the trackman. He told me that with an R-Flex, my trajectory would be higher and I don't have to swing as hard.

Tomorrow I'm going to special order some PXi 6.0 Shafts for my irons.

Oh, I didn't know that too much lags = much more open face = shots to the right...

I completely forgot about #3 . . . my right thumb and trigger finger actually don't touch my grip anymore, it happens because I was trying to cure a duck hook a few months ago as I think

my right hand became too active.

Thanks for reminding me of all these.

[Precis1on]

Your swing speed fits the X-flex for the driver. I swing around the same pace and my current shaft is a Xstiff, although it's generally rated in between stiff and xstiff so I took a bit off the butt and tip to stiffen it up a little.

Don't be afraid of the Xstiff if it gives you a better dispersion and accuracy while not sacrificing distance.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Yes, I remember now seeing 82-88mph on 6i on the trackman. He told me that with an R-Flex, my trajectory would be higher and I don't have to swing as hard.

Tomorrow I'm going to special order some PXi 6.0 Shafts for my irons.

Oh, I didn't know that too much lags = much more open face = shots to the right...

I completely forgot about #3 . . . my right thumb and trigger finger actually don't touch my grip anymore, it happens because I was trying to cure a duck hook a few months ago as I think

my right hand became too active.

Thanks for reminding me of all these.

Swing easier isn't a good idea IMO.  The key is getting the proper mechanics - and swinging within yourself.  If you swing fast - naturally... You don't need to swing easier.  The key is to monitor the power package and ensure your pressure points are all within check.  Delivering the club with an open face - blocks - can be cured by getting your swing on plane and simply monitoring the pressure points.

Do you have a swing thread?  I haven't checked... I will though.  If you don't - you should get one.  And monitor your geometry at A4.  If you can consistently nail A4... Then delivering the club with a square face is so much easier IMO.

[Sai-Jin]

@Beachcomber: I forgot if I have a swing thread or not, if I do, it'd be pretty old.

I'll follow your advice and swing naturally, which is pretty aggressive from the top and fix my flaws as much as I can.

Oh, I don't know what "geometry at A4" mean... but I'll google it.

My swing is naturally steeper. Trackman says : Out to in 1*  and in to out 1* . I honestly don't know what the ideal degree is supposed to be.