Selling my clubs to buy Miura?

[DufnerDip]

  ApocG10 said:

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Oh, and I should have added this earlier, but its too late to edit now.

If you are playing off of an 11hc, what the hell are you doing with blades, let alone undersized blades. Get some cavity backs and watch your iron game progress.

i have blades with a 10 hc.. putting kills me, what makes u think u can tell someone to not get blades just cause their handicap?? for all u know he's a way better ball striker than u. too easy to judge people behind a computer apoc. he wants blades, let him spend his money how he wants

[iacas]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Miura doesn't make a secret of its steel.

The art is in the design of the club and is a melding of math, knowledge, experience, imagination, and science.

Forging is a process.

Huh?

You heat metal to soften it and you smash it with some progressively more precise molds. There's really not that much to it.

Someone could build a cast club in the same exact shape, weight, with the same metal as a Miura forged iron and it would be indistinguishable from a Miura iron.

[Mr. Desmond]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Huh?

You heat metal to soften it and you smash it with some progressively more precise molds. There's really not that much to it.

Someone could build a cast club in the same exact shape, weight, with the same metal as a Miura forged iron and it would be indistinguishable from a Miura iron.

HUH?

I said forging was a process - nothing special in that, as the poster stated. But he said Miura was not art.

I disagree.

Miura is more than a forging process, as is ANY other golf club.

There is an art to designing a golf club other than the manufacturing process, which is my point.

Perspective....

[iacas]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

HUH?

I said forging was a process - nothing special in that, as the poster stated. But he said Miura was not art.

I disagree.

Miura is more than a forging process, as is ANY other golf club.

There is an art to designing a golf club other than the manufacturing process, which is my point.

Perspective....

I think you believe there's an art to it.

Miura isn't art - it's a mass produced (albeit smaller masses than others) club.

I've played 'em. Owned a few sets. They're just irons. I see them more as tools than anything else. What's artistic about them? The design? They look like virtually every other player's iron out there.

[Mr. Desmond]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you believe there's an art to it.

Miura isn't art - it's a mass produced (albeit smaller masses than others) club.

I've played 'em. Owned a few sets. They're just irons. I see them more as tools than anything else. What's artistic about them? The design? They look like virtually every other player's iron out there.

I think all golf clubs have elements of artistic value in them.

Why do people have a hard-on for Miura or want to downplay them?

I don't know.

Miura is a golf club.

Their designs are neither high tech or special - they are functional and pleasing to my eye, and that's what counts to me as an owner.

To a clubmaker, they are special because they are made to spec with tight tolerances.

My opinion is - there is an element of art to any golf club, to some degree - putting it all together where a club is appealing to the golfer in terms of function and still pleasing to the eye is an art.

Miura designs are simple yet pleasing to me, as are other irons, and I've owned many sets of irons (I'm sorry to say). Others look similar. Miura is forged steel with hand finishing - no tungsten, titaniums, rods, and rubber anywhere. Others have that simplicity in some of their designs, too.

It's a golf club. I enjoy it for what it is - no more, no less.

[Mr. Desmond]

  GaijinGolfer said:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

Nice press release.  Did you quote that from the Miura brochure?

Why do people insist on being a-holes when it comes to MIura?

I stated the Q&A; came from the Miura site.

And this discussion is not about Endo - I've owned Epon and TourStage - and am familiar with the product.

You can believe the tourspec stuff - I don't - they have an agenda.

See the video of the Miura tour - email Adam Barr if you like, I don't care. But don't drivel around here without facts. Give us something from Miura that says they don't do their own forgings. Until then, STFU.

Thank you.

:-)

[iacas]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

My opinion is - there is an element of art to any golf club, to some degree - putting it all together where a club is appealing to the golfer in terms of function and still pleasing to the eye is an art.

Miura designs are simple yet pleasing to me, as are other irons, and I've owned many sets of irons (I'm sorry to say). Others look similar. Miura is forged steel with hand finishing - no tungsten, titaniums, rods, and rubber anywhere. Others have that simplicity in some of their designs, too.

I'll admit to playing devil's advocate a little bit. I'm a fan of "austerity" and the Miura blades do look nice. I think (in my opinion) calling it "artistry" is going a bit too far. But there's something to be said for pleasing esthetics. :)

[sean_miller]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you believe there's an art to it.

Miura isn't art - it's a mass produced (albeit smaller masses than others) club.

I've played 'em. Owned a few sets. They're just irons. I see them more as tools than anything else. What's artistic about them? The design? They look like virtually every other player's iron out there.

Miura is a golf club.

Their designs are neither high tech or special - they are functional and pleasing to my eye, and that's what counts to me as an owner.

They remind me of Titleists, Clevelands, Scratch, MacGregor MTs and several other irons I really really like. I love blades. Miura rocks and like most things worth liking there will be haters and fanatics.

[Mr. Desmond]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I'll admit to playing devil's advocate a little bit. I'm a fan of "austerity" and the Miura blades do look nice. I think (in my opinion) calling it "artistry" is going a bit too far. But there's something to be said for pleasing esthetics. :)

Yes, I appreciate minimalist, too.

:-)

Minimalism -

I don't like to use wikipedia, but here goes - funny in a way. " The term minimalism is also used to describe a trend in design and architecture where in the subject is reduced to its necessary elements. Minimalist design has been highly influenced by Japanese traditional design and architecture."

Do you think it coincidental that a Japanese Domestic line of Miura is called "Miuraism."

Truth is stranger than fiction.

:-)

[ApocG10]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Miura doesn't make a secret of its steel.

The art is in the design of the club and is a melding of math, knowledge, experience, imagination, and science.

Forging is a process.

Forging is a simple process. Its not an art. Its hammering steel down to a shape that can then be finished. And it is pretty damn easy, at that. build a mould, put it in the press, and let it hammer **** the steel until it is in the desired shape. I have been around forged materials, as well as presses, dies, and metals to know exactly what im talking about. Forging is forging, and your foolish if you think that a forging from Miura is different than a forging from Mizuno or anyone else. Its pretty goddamn simple, and given the same steel, the exact same forging can be made by anyone with the equipment to do so. The only thing Miura has over other people, is that fools believe that one forging is somehow different from another, when they all use the exact same principle. Cult personalies. Thats what fans of Miura fit into. If you believe otherwise, then i've got some beachfront land in Siberia to sell you, because you are truly gullible.

Hand finishing is the only thing that sets Miura apart. But guess what? Anybody can hand finish an iron. Its really quite easy.

Again, anything Miura can forge, my father could match. That is not because my father is some forging genius, its because forging is so simple that anybody with the tools and knowledge can create a forging to match Miura.

[Mr. Desmond]

  ApocG10 said:

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Forging is a simple process. Its not an art. Its hammering steel down to a shape that can then be finished. And it is pretty damn easy, at that. build a mould, put it in the press, and let it hammer **** the steel until it is in the desired shape. I have been around forged materials, as well as presses, dies, and metals to know exactly what im talking about. Forging is forging, and your foolish if you think that a forging from Miura is different than a forging from Mizuno or anyone else. Its pretty goddamn simple, and given the same steel, the exact same forging can be made by anyone with the equipment to do so. The only thing Miura has over other people, is that fools believe that one forging is somehow different from another, when they all use the exact same principle. Cult personalies. Thats what fans of Miura fit into. If you believe otherwise, then i've got some beachfront land in Siberia to sell you, because you are truly gullible.

Hand finishing is the only thing that sets Miura apart. But guess what? Anybody can hand finish an iron. Its really quite easy.

Again, anything Miura can forge, my father could match. That is not because my father is some forging genius, its because forging is so simple that anybody with the tools and knowledge can create a forging to match Miura.

You may know metallurgy, but need to work on reading comprehension.

You have a bone to pick, apparently, and seem to get worked up about this.

I suggest counseling.

Or you can rant on...

[Sai-Jin]

I just got back from a PGA course and I used the entire set of the 1957 baby Miura Blades with PXi 6.0 .

Played from the black tees total about 7500+ yds.  Shot 8 over . I think I could have done a little better since I missed my 4 and 5 iron shots 3 times.

ALbeit the small head, they are definitely more solid than my MP68, but less soft.

Going back to the course tomorrow and use my Wilson FG Tour V2 and see how I score.

I do like that solid / stout feel without having to get a stiffer shaft, so most likely I'll sell my brand new MP68 to help cover the cost.

[Mr. Desmond]

  Sai-Jin said:

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

I just got back from a PGA course and I used the entire set of the 1957 baby Miura Blades with PXi 6.0 .

Played from the black tees total about 7500+ yds.  Shot 8 over . I think I could have done a little better since I missed my 4 and 5 iron shots 3 times.

ALbeit the small head, they are definitely more solid than my MP68, but less soft.

Going back to the course tomorrow and use my Wilson FG Tour V2 and see how I score.

I do like that solid / stout feel without having to get a stiffer shaft, so most likely I'll sell my brand new MP68 to help cover the cost.

Some people wince when I say this, but certain Miura head-shaft combos seem to generate a more dense, solid, precise, surgical "feel" when compared to Mizuno, which will "feel" softer.

Feel is subjective and different to everyone...

[ApocG10]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

You may know metallurgy, but need to work on reading comprehension.

You have a bone to pick, apparently, and seem to get worked up about this.

I suggest counseling.

Or you can rant on...

no bone to pick, and not worked up. Just sick of people pretending that Miura makes some magical irons that are somehow better than Mizuno or any other forged club. Forged is forged. The only difference is the finishing technique, which is done by hand. No way Mizuno or Titleist or any large club maker could finish clubs by hand, because they make far too many. Miura's irons are expensive because of the low quantity made, and the hand finishing. But they dont feel or work any better than any other forged club.

[newtogolf]

I think you've been drinking too much of the Miura Kool-Aid.  I'm glad you're happy with your clubs but let's not get carried away.

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

HUH?

I said forging was a process - nothing special in that, as the poster stated. But he said Miura was not art.

I disagree.

Miura is more than a forging process, as is ANY other golf club.

There is an art to designing a golf club other than the manufacturing process, which is my point.

Perspective....

[GaijinGolfer]

  ApocG10 said:

Originally Posted by ApocG10

no bone to pick, and not worked up. Just sick of people pretending that Miura makes some magical irons that are somehow better than Mizuno or any other forged club. Forged is forged. The only difference is the finishing technique, which is done by hand. No way Mizuno or Titleist or any large club maker could finish clubs by hand, because they make far too many. Miura's irons are expensive because of the low quantity made, and the hand finishing. But they dont feel or work any better than any other forged club.

For someone who is supposedly such a expert, you clearly dont understand the finer details of forging.  Forged isnt forged because you can tailor the feel of the iron based upon the blend of metals that you use and the temperature that you forge the metals at.

Forging is a fairly simple process but it does take skill and knowhow to get it right.  I suggest you drop the ego, open your mind and do some more reading on forging because you still have something to learn on the subject.

About Miuras, theyre great irons and you cant deny the quality and attention to detail with them.

[Chief Broom]

Miura draws upon the Japanese cultural traditions of metallurgy, craftsmanship, artistry, etc.  It's no coincidence that this approach has been successful for them in the Japanese market and beyond.  This multidisciplinary approach has always been a fundamental component of Japanese culture and the Miura company functions under this philosophy.  I've always admired this mindset.  The Samurai prized the ability to arrange flowers and write poetry as much as skill with arms or military tactics.  At the core of this belief is the assumption that better design is to be found through such a multidisciplinary approach.

[Mr. Desmond]

  newtogolf said:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I think you've been drinking too much of the Miura Kool-Aid.  I'm glad you're happy with your clubs but let's not get carried away.

No, I think you're carried away and did not read my posts.

It's a golf club, nothing more, nothing less is what I said.

I have perspective because I've looked back and learned from mistakes. Like others here, I've owned many different brands of golf clubs and was happy with them. I could choose another set and be happy with them.

I have no attachments to golf clubs, but I do have opinions about them.