Grounding the club

[viking509]

I recently found myself in a sand bunker. I attempted to blast it out but left the ball in the trap at the other end of the bunker. In my disgust, I swiped my wedge at the sand after taking the shot. My playing partner said that I should take a 2 stroke penalty for grounding the club because my ball was still in the bunker. Is he right?

[Motown88]

Yes he is...You can't ground your club in a hazard prior to taking your shot.  Since your golf ball is still in the hazard you can't ground you club again, in disgust or intentional.

[Motown88]

Here is the official rule for you:

13-4 Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Except as provided in the Rules , before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard ) or that, having been lifted from a hazard , may be dropped or placed in the hazard , the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard ;

b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or

c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard .

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:

Match play – Loss of hole;

Stroke play – Two strokes.

[viking509]

I thought I read somewhere that if you were leaning on your club while waiting for another player to play his ball, this was not a penalty only if he was addressing the ball. Why wouldn't this rule apply in this case?

[Motown88]

Originally Posted by viking509

I thought I read somewhere that if you were leaning on your club while waiting for another player to play his ball, this was not a penalty only if he was addressing the ball. Why wouldn't this rule apply in this case?

What do you mean?  Are you asking if you were leaning on your club in the hazard?  If you're in the harzard you're grounding your club and breaking a rule.

[awmgolfer]

Because you are in a hazard, big difference between a hazard and fairway/rough.

[luu5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by viking509

I thought I read somewhere that if you were leaning on your club while waiting for another player to play his ball, this was not a penalty only if he was addressing the ball. Why wouldn't this rule apply in this case?

Read decision 13-4/2:

Quote:

Q: A, whose ball lies in a hazard, casually leans on his club in the hazard while waiting for B to play. What is the ruling?

A: A was in breach of Rule 13-4b for touching the ground in the hazard with his club before making a stroke. The Exceptions to Rule 13-4 do not apply.

For your OP, read decision 13-4/35:

Quote:

Q: A made a stroke in a bunker and failed to get the ball out. He then swung his club into the sand, but his action did not affect his new lie in the bunker. However, since A had to make another stroke in the bunker, was he in breach of Rule 13-4?

A: Yes. None of the Exceptions under Rule 13-4 apply to A's action.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by viking509

I thought I read somewhere that if you were leaning on your club while waiting for another player to play his ball, this was not a penalty only if he was addressing the ball. Why wouldn't this rule apply in this case?

Clarification please?  I can't understand what you are asking.  Leaning on a club in a bunker when your ball lies in the bunker is not allowed.  The only time it is not a penalty is if you use it like a cane to assist you in climbing in or out of the bunker or if it touches the bunker in helping to prevent a fall from slipping or stumbling.  And then it must be clear that it is not being done to test the conditions of the bunker or hazard.  The only other time a club can touch a bunker while your ball lies in the same bunker is if you have carried more than one club into the bunker with you and lay the extra ones down, again taking care to do nothing which might be construed as testing the surface.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by viking509

I thought I read somewhere that if you were leaning on your club while waiting for another player to play his ball, this was not a penalty only if he was addressing the ball. Why wouldn't this rule apply in this case?

Here are the exceptions, you may have heard something that was confused with preventing falling.  Note you can also place your clubs in a hazard.  Exception 2 has been reworked, however swiping in disgust is not considered caring for the course.

Exceptions:

1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction , in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or (b) places his clubs in a hazard .

2. At any time, the player may smooth sand or soil in a hazard provided this is for the sole purpose of caring for the course and nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke . If a ball played from a hazard is outside the hazard after the stroke , the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction.

3. If the player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard , Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made.

Note: At any time, including at address or in the backward movement for the stroke , the player may touch, with a club or otherwise, any obstruction , any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush, tree or other growing thing.

[Wansteadimp]

I think the Tours play slightly different rules, didn't Rory get away with taking a swipe (or something) at the right greenside bunker on 18 at Augusta when he left his ball in it a couple of years back?

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Wansteadimp

I think the Tours play slightly different rules, didn't Rory get away with taking a swipe (or something) at the right greenside bunker on 18 at Augusta when he left his ball in it a couple of years back?

There are so many vagaries in this statement that more proof is needed.

[rustyredcab]

Used to regularly play a course where a bunker wrapped all the way around the 17th green -- one continuous bunker with a "bridge" to get onto the green. Often guys would fly the green and end up in the same bunker on the other side. 2 strokes if they swing in anger or re-swing to fix a flaw. Sergio had it happen to him in an event years ago when he thought he was in a different bunker.

[Motown88]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Used to regularly play a course where a bunker wrapped all the way around the 17th green -- one continuous bunker with a "bridge" to get onto the green. Often guys would fly the green and end up in the same bunker on the other side. 2 strokes if they swing in anger or re-swing to fix a flaw. Sergio had it happen to him in an event years ago when he thought he was in a different bunker.

I'm sure I could look this up, but I'm going to ask this anyway for this given situation.  Say I fly the green and end up in the same bunker on the opposite side but rake my first bunker shot before hitting the second.  Does raking the bunker constitute and testing the conditions?

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Motown88

I'm sure I could look this up, but I'm going to ask this anyway for this given situation.  Say I fly the green and end up in the same bunker on the opposite side but rake my first bunker shot before hitting the second.  Does raking the bunker constitute and testing the conditions?

I'll help you a bit http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-13/#13-4/36

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Motown88

I'm sure I could look this up, but I'm going to ask this anyway for this given situation.  Say I fly the green and end up in the same bunker on the opposite side but rake my first bunker shot before hitting the second.  Does raking the bunker constitute and testing the conditions?

Not under the rules as recently revised.  As long as you don't rake an area which on the line of play for your next stroke, it is now allowed.  Until 2008, it would have been a penalty to rake if you ball was still in the bunker, now it's only a penalty if you rake a spot on your line of play.  By the way, the line of play ends at the hole, so in your case, raking would be allowed.

[inthehole]

sorry - see following post ...

[inthehole]

At the PGA last week, Rory clearly grounded his wedge on a pre-shot stroke while in the bunker on one of the last holes (I think it was #17 or 18).    It was clear as day.    Coudn't believe the announcers didn't say anything.     Should or should not there have been a penalty assessed for grounding the club on a pre-shot swing & touching the sand ?      He had not yet addressed the ball if that makes a difference.

Thx - I'd really like to know the ruling so I can apply it to my game ...

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by inthehole

Question ... Rory clearly grounded his club on a PRACTICE swing on #17 or 18 in the PGA that he just won.     It was clear as day.    He did not address the ball yet.     I kept waiting for one of the announcers to say something - no one did.      I never know the ruling with regard to touching the sand on a pre-shot swing, but I always thought it was not allowed without penalty ???

They played the bunkers as "through the green" sand areas all week.  You didn't hear them mention that on the broadcast?  Not a bunker, not a hazard, practice swings and touching the sand permissible.

Just a unique rule of that course.  For normal sand bunkers, yes, you are not allowed to touch the sand with your club prior to your stroke.