Driver woes keeping me from enjoying golf

[Jon Robert]

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

P.S. The OP isn't having a hard time 'hitting the sweet spot' (well, probably that, too), he's asking about curing an extreme slice. Once again, though, I figure this will be lost on the 41" driver crowd.

The shorter club recommendations are for hitting the ball more solidly, not for fixing a swing flaw.

Unwieldy clubs produce swing flaws. But you are a insistent opinionated person that declares everyone who disagrees with you to have a problem, so I am quite sure that you will declare that unwieldy clubs do not create swing flaws.

[LovinItAll]

  Jon Robert said:

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

Unwieldy clubs produce swing flaws. But you are a insistent opinionated person that declares everyone who disagrees with you to have a problem, so I am quite sure that you will declare that unwieldy clubs do not create swing flaws.

A gripped down 45"-46" driver shouldn't be 'unwieldy', and a 45"-46" driver shouldn't make someone with an already sound golf swing start hitting a banana ball.

Like I said, you keep playing your 41" driver and I'll keep playing my 44.5" driver. I'd suggest the OP get advice from someone other than me and definitely from someone who can at least break 80.

[kregan]

Nice!

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Like I said, you keep playing your 41" driver and I'll keep playing my 44.5" driver. I'd suggest the OP get advice from someone other than me and definitely from someone who can at least break 80.

[kregan]

With that out of the way I would suggest that guys not be affraid to experiment with clubs.

We are talking about a 4 buck (cost of a cheap grip) modification that has no lasting affect on the driver. What can it hurt?  If it doesn't work put the original grip back on.

[Jon Robert]

  kregan said:

Originally Posted by kregan

With that out of the way I would suggest that guys not be afraid to experiment with clubs.

We are talking about a 4 buck (cost of a cheap grip) modification that has no lasting affect on the driver. What can it hurt?  If it doesn't work put the original grip back on.

The objectionist cannot fathom a driver made the length of a 7 wood.  There is nothing sacred about 45" but the objectionist just wants someone to decree that he is correct and that is final.

It wouldn't matter if a midget had a driver the length of a 5 iron the objectionist would demand that the midget use a 44.5" driver

[LovinItAll]

  Jon Robert said:

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

The objectionist cannot fathom a driver made the length of a 7 wood.  There is nothing sacred about 45" but the objectionist just wants someone to decree that he is correct and that is final.

It wouldn't matter if a midget had a driver the length of a 5 iron the objectionist would demand that the midget use a 44.5" driver

And I'll bet that 10.5 degree 7 wood is an effective tool in your arsenal.

You must be related to the guy with the magic grits in 'My Cousin Vinny', except you have a magic 41" driver.

[Stretch]

Just what we need, another pissing match.

OP, you slice the driver primarily because your club path is too far to the left of your target line. If you want less curve, you will need to move your club path more to the right . And probably the easiest way to do this was given as the very first answer to your question in this thread: aim more out to the right . I know it sounds crazy for someone who fears the ball peeling off that way, but you've already seen and know instinctively that the same effect works in reverse -- because when you aim further left , the ball actually goes further right . This clip explains why in a fairly simple way:

And then, practically, how to begin applying this understanding:

Get some alignment sticks (or just use a couple of irons) and start figuring this out at the range. Playing from the fairway makes golf a lot more enjoyable. :-)

[mosnas]

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

P.S. The OP isn't having a hard time 'hitting the sweet spot' (well, probably that, too), he's asking about curing an extreme slice. Once again, though, I figure this will be lost on the 41" driver crowd.

The shorter club recommendations are for hitting the ball more solidly, not for fixing a swing flaw.

Thanks for this I don't know if I stated before or not but I have no problem hitting the sweet spot on any clubs.  With my driver right now I can hit it where I want on the face without a problem, the problem is clearly in my swing and not where I am hitting the ball.

Also at 6'2.5 cutting down a driver 4-5 inches would be uncomfortable as hell

Edit: Not too mention it would mess up the stiffness of the shaft considerably (assuming golf shafts are similar to hockey sticks in the stiffness to length ratio)

[boogielicious]

mosnas,

+1 on what Stretch suggests.  I would add to the info above that ball position relative to your front heel is important as well.  I have struggled this year and finally got it to work for my swing.  If the ball is too far forward for your swing, then you could be hitting it out-to-in at contact (past the pencil in Stretch's video) even with a good swing path.  The face could then be open to path causing a slice.  If you pull the ball back a bit (1/2 ball width at a time) and use the same swing, you could then have a straight on or slightly in-to-out path at contact.  The ball will curve less or start to draw.  You will almost have to aim the face to the right to get it from over drawing.

I have the ball at my left heel (front of the ball), which is working for me.  I also drop my right shoulder a bit and push my left hip a bit toward target so I don't come steep into the ball like with my irons.  The launch angle is good for me.

there is a video on this forum with Dave Wedzik and James Hirschfeld that is very good and explains better that I can.  I searched but can't remember the thread title.

Get some cheap alignment sticks at the hardware store and work with them.

[Jon Robert]

  mosnas said:

Originally Posted by mosnas

Thanks for this I don't know if I stated before or not but I have no problem hitting the sweet spot on any clubs.  With my driver right now I can hit it where I want on the face without a problem, the problem is clearly in my swing and not where I am hitting the ball.

Also at 6'2.5 cutting down a driver 4-5 inches would be uncomfortable as hell

Edit: Not too mention it would mess up the stiffness of the shaft considerably (assuming golf shafts are similar to hockey sticks in the stiffness to length ratio)

"Also at 6'2.5 cutting down a driver 4-5 inches would be uncomfortable as hell"

You must have one H of a time suffering through the use of the 7 wood throught the wedges.

[kregan]

I remember the show "playing lessons with the pro's".  Each time a bad slicer that aimed way left was on the

show the pro would bring him back in line and it seemed to help.

I had a really bad slice myself and several things help reduce it over time.

1) While hunting for a Pro launch shaft I ran across a neutral face driver with the shaft I wanted.  I purchased

the driver and decided to hit it before pulling the shaft.  I thought the neutral face would make my slice worse

but the opposite happened. My slice was reduced by half.  Later I noticed the driver was a 1.5" shorter.

2) Ball position closer to my arm pit instead of my left foot reduced the slice further, now closer to a fade.

3) Tee height, a little lower and it straightened out even more.

I am not sure why any of this helped but over time my slice has been reduced to small fade. If I try to draw

the ball I hook the hell out of it!  LOL

[LovinItAll]

  Stretch said:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Just what we need, another pissing match.

OP, you slice the driver primarily because your club path is too far to the left of your target line. If you want less curve, you will need to move your club path more to the right. And probably the easiest way to do this was given as the very first answer to your question in this thread: aim more out to the right. I know it sounds crazy for someone who fears the ball peeling off that way, but you've already seen and know instinctively that the same effect works in reverse -- because when you aim further left, the ball actually goes further right. This clip explains why in a fairly simple way:

And then, practically, how to begin applying this understanding:

Get some alignment sticks (or just use a couple of irons) and start figuring this out at the range. Playing from the fairway makes golf a lot more enjoyable. :-

Not sure if I just didn't understand what you wrote, but you can clarify if you think this is wrong:

- If a right handed golfer aligns his feet parallel to the target line, and if a line was drawn through the equator of the ball along the target line, a golfer will slice the ball if he strikes the ball on the right side of the ball's 'vertical equator'. Which direction the ball begins its flight will be determined by the angle of the clubface.

- To produce right to left spin, the same golfer must strike the ball on the left side of the ball's 'vertical equator'.

It sounds like this....

"you slice the driver primarily because your club path is too far to the left of your target line. If you want less curve, you will need to move your club path more to the right."

Unless the OP is a left-handed golfer, I don't think this is right. I could be wrong, but......

[iacas]

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

- If a right handed golfer aligns his feet parallel to the target line, and if a line was drawn through the equator of the ball along the target line, a golfer will slice the ball if he strikes the ball on the right side of the ball's 'vertical equator'. Which direction the ball begins its flight will be determined by the angle of the clubface.

The only way to strike the ball to the right of the "vertical equator" as you've described it is to have a clubface pointing to the left at impact.

Most slicers have this condition (if only by half a dimple or so). The problem for them is that their path is WAY left of even that.

But anyway, you can slice a golf ball hitting it pretty much anywhere, so long as the path is left of a line drawn between that spot and the center of the golf ball.

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

- To produce right to left spin, the same golfer must strike the ball on the left side of the ball's 'vertical equator'.

Huh? No. We're talking about righties, right? Right to left spin is a draw. Right to left curve is a draw, too.

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

"you slice the driver primarily because your club path is too far to the left of your target line. If you want less curve, you will need to move your club path more to the right."

Unless the OP is a left-handed golfer, I don't think this is right. I could be wrong, but.....

The bold part is correct.

[LovinItAll]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

The only way to strike the ball to the right of the "vertical equator" as you've described it is to have a clubface pointing to the left at impact.

Most slicers have this condition (if only by half a dimple or so). The problem for them is that their path is WAY left of even that.

But anyway, you can slice a golf ball hitting it pretty much anywhere, so long as the path is left of a line drawn between that spot and the center of the golf ball.

Huh? No. We're talking about righties, right? Right to left spin is a draw. Right to left curve is a draw, too.

The bold part is correct.

The diagram is exactly what I thought I said - maybe I didn't say it right.

"To produce right to left spin, the same golfer must strike the ball on the left side of the ball's 'vertical equator' = Pictures 4 & 7. A swing that produces draw. Don't 4 & 7 show left of the vertical equator? I was saying, "To produce the opposite of a slice, one must do this."

"Most slicers have this condition (if only by half a dimple or so). The problem for them is that their path is WAY left of even that." - Yes, I don't think I said otherwise. The clubface pointing way left, in conjucntion with the path to the right of center, produces the banana ball....right?

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

"you slice the driver primarily because your club path is too far to the left of your target line. If you want less curve, you will need to move your club path more to the right."

Unless the OP is a left-handed golfer, I don't think this is right. I could be wrong, but.....

"The bold part is correct."

Huh? Which picture shows this? Somehow I'm missing something in translation because the various swing diagrams are exactly what I was referencing. Pictures 1 & 6, for example, show what I was calling 'hitting on the right side of the vertical equator', creating cut spin for a righty. To turn that into draw spin, the path would have to move left, correct? That's what I thought I said.

[iacas]

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

The diagram is exactly what I thought I said - maybe I didn't say it right.

"To produce right to left spin, the same golfer must strike the ball on the left side of the ball's 'vertical equator' = Pictures 4 & 7. A swing that produces draw. Don't 4 & 7 show left of the vertical equator? I was saying, "To produce the opposite of a slice, one must do this."

Pictures 4 through 6 show the ball being hit right on the vertical equator.

Pictures 7, 8, and 9 show the ball being hit on the left side of the vertical equator, and you can get both kinds of spin (7 vs. 9).

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

"The bold part is correct."

Huh? Which picture shows this? Somehow I'm missing something in translation because the various swing diagrams are exactly what I was referencing. Pictures 1 & 6, for example, show what I was calling 'hitting on the right side of the vertical equator', creating cut spin for a righty. To turn that into draw spin, the path would have to move left, correct? That's what I thought I said.

Swinging more left (for a righty) will not add more draw spin, no. It'll add more cut spin.

[LovinItAll]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Pictures 4 through 6 show the ball being hit right on the vertical equator.

Pictures 7, 8, and 9 show the ball being hit on the left side of the vertical equator, and you can get both kinds of spin (7 vs. 9).

Swinging more left (for a righty) will not add more draw spin, no. It'll add more cut spin.

"Swinging more left (for a righty) will not add more draw spin, no. It'll add more cut spin."

No..Yes....Either of us saying this is like telling someone, "Acme Hardware is on your left if you're going down Main St." Depends on which way down Main one is heading. We clearly have different perspectives of the diagram.

'Swinging right' to me, from behind the ball, means swinging to right field for a righty. That's how I've always heard the reference.

How about this?

If the target line bisects the golf ball, the inside half of the ball is the side facing the golfer. The outside half of the ball is on the other side (for either a righty or a lefty).

If a golfer is set up parallel to the target line, the golfer must deliver the clubhead on a path that strikes the ball on the inside half to produce draw spin, or the outside half to produce cut spin .

To me, the 'inside half' is on the left for a righty. Viewing the diagram, I'm seeing it from behind the ball, so given that everything is parallel, moving the path of the club left delivers the clubhead more inside, thus producing more draw spin. I think you're saying, 'Swinging the club left' means, to you, a path that is moving from outside in. Of course that's right.

[GlasgowsGreen]

What worked for me was ensuring that my hands went deep on the backswing. You can't swing 'in to out' if your hands don't get in the inside to begin with.

Slow things down at the transition, really feel that your hands are going deep and you have a full shoulder turn - then swing through.

See the great thread 'Deep Hands' (by Iacas)

[Mordan]

  LovinItAll said:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

To me, the 'inside half' is on the left for a righty. Viewing the diagram, I'm seeing it from behind the ball, so given that everything is parallel, moving the path of the club left delivers the clubhead more inside, thus producing more draw spin. I think you're saying, 'Swinging the club left' means, to you, a path that is moving from outside in. Of course that's right.

While hitting the inside half of the ball might be a good swing thought for some, it can also be confusing. You can hit the inside half of the ball and produce cut spin, no spin or draw spin (9, 8 & 7 above). Ultimately it's about changing the swing path, so talking about a vector rather than a point of contact is less ambigous.