Why do I hit my Irons so high and short?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by uscfan

NEED A PIC BUT JUST OFF OF WHAT YOU SAID YOUR FLIPPING THE CLUB AT IMPACT

I AGREE WITH THIS BUT I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY WE ARE YELLING?!?

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Quote:

Originally Posted by uscfan

NEED A PIC BUT JUST OFF OF WHAT YOU SAID YOUR FLIPPING THE CLUB AT IMPACT

I AGREE WITH THIS BUT I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY WE ARE YELLING?!?

MY POINTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

It's like a catepult. Your arms are the sling and your body is the base or tree. If the base or tree isn't involved, the sling won't shoot the projectile far. Your upper body coils against the lower body. When it unwinds properly (timing), your arms reach maximum speed at impact or just past impact which is the lowest point of your swing.

When you 'flip' you're reaching your maximum speed too soon and the bottom of your swing occurs early. If your timing is right, you just sweep the ball off the turf and hit pretty decent shots but not the best you can. When your timing is off, you hit it fat or thin.

I've never been a fan of that way of describing things.

For one, the lower body doesn't really coil against the upper body or vice versa. That leads to people not turning their hips. There's some "x-factor stretch" during the downswing, but that's about it, and it's not how people typically refer to things.

Secondly, the arms aren't "whipped around" passively. That's a great image if you want to never "get your arms down" and have your chest 45° open to the target at impact because your arms are still loaded way across your chest. In ever good golf swing there's active pulling of the left arm across your chest and active straightening of the right elbow (righty swings). There's turning, too, but the arms are anything but a "sling" that simply gets "unwound." They move on their own, against the platform provided by the shoulders.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by iacas

I've never been a fan of that way of describing things.

For one, the lower body doesn't really coil against the upper body or vice versa. That leads to people not turning their hips. There's some "x-factor stretch" during the downswing, but that's about it, and it's not how people typically refer to things.

Secondly, the arms aren't "whipped around" passively. That's a great image if you want to never "get your arms down" and have your chest 45° open to the target at impact because your arms are still loaded way across your chest. In ever good golf swing there's active pulling of the left arm across your chest and active straightening of the right elbow (righty swings). There's turning, too, but the arms are anything but a "sling" that simply gets "unwound." They move on their own, against the platform provided by the shoulders.

You're reading into what I posted and I didn't mean to infer that the arms are passive. Sorry if I came across wrong.

I subscribe to the 'X-factor stretch' you refer to. To stretch something, there needs to be resistance which is the lower body not turning as far (45 deg) as the shoulders (90+). If you don't brace your lower body (your right leg for righties), you may slide backwards with your hips instead of turning them.

Sure the arms swing, but without the body helping you aren't reaching your potential.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I've never been a fan of that way of describing things.

For one, the lower body doesn't really coil against the upper body or vice versa. That leads to people not turning their hips. There's some "x-factor stretch" during the downswing, but that's about it, and it's not how people typically refer to things.

Secondly, the arms aren't "whipped around" passively. That's a great image if you want to never "get your arms down" and have your chest 45° open to the target at impact because your arms are still loaded way across your chest. In ever good golf swing there's active pulling of the left arm across your chest and active straightening of the right elbow (righty swings). There's turning, too, but the arms are anything but a "sling" that simply gets "unwound." They move on their own, against the platform provided by the shoulders.

You're reading into what I posted and I didn't mean to infer that the arms are passive. Sorry if I came across wrong.

I subscribe to the 'X-factor stretch' you refer to. To stretch something, there needs to be resistance which is the lower body not turning as far (45 deg) as the shoulders (90+). If you don't brace your lower body (your right leg for righties), you may slide backwards with your hips instead of turning them.

Sure the arms swing, but without the body helping you aren't reaching your potential.

What do you mean by bracing your right leg? Not letting it lose flex? Because that's already been proven incorrect.

Bubba Waton's hips turn more than 45 degrees and his back leg is pretty close to straight. His belt buckle is basically facing the camera (which I admit is a little bit to the left, but still). He gets a HUGE hip turn. And he's not exactly a Sally off the tee. I have no idea how much he's turned here, but they look like they are more than 60 degrees.

This isn't really on topic though. Check out that link I included and maybe it's better to put our thoughts on this there instead.

You definitely never want your hips sliding back on the backswing -- but you do want them to turn a lot. It's a huge power source.

[Pablo68]

Nope; not talking about keeping all the flex in your right leg but just bracing it so you don't slide your hips.

And the average player can't turn like Bubba there and probably couldn't get one of their legs inside the waist of his pants (skinny bastige). Hell, look how high his hands are too. Sure he has a massive waist turn but how many guys here can swing a club like him?

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Nope; not talking about keeping all the flex in your right leg but just bracing it so you don't slide your hips.

And the average player can't turn like Bubba there and probably couldn't get one of their legs inside the waist of his pants (skinny bastige). Hell, look how high his hands are too. Sure he has a massive waist turn but how many guys here can swing a club like him?

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I subscribe to the 'X-factor stretch' you refer to. To stretch something, there needs to be resistance which is the lower body not turning as far (45 deg) as the shoulders (90+). If you don't brace your lower body (your right leg for righties), you may slide backwards with your hips instead of turning them.

I wasn't saying to swing like him. I was saying its good to turn your hips more than 45 degrees. Not everyone can, but if you can, you should. You were saying to resist that at 45 degrees.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I wasn't saying to swing like him. I was saying its good to turn your hips more than 45 degrees. Not everyone can, but if you can, you should. You were saying to resist that at 45 degrees.

I no more said stop turning your hips at 45 degrees than I said stop turning your shoulders at 90 degrees. I put those values in brackets as averages but didn't say stop there. If you can turn your shoulders 180 and your hips 90 degrees go for it. I said you shouldn't be turning your hips as far as your shoulders but of course you'd be hard pressed to find someone who could turn their hips as far as their shoulders.

Go back and reread it............

As usual here, people try to pick the nat shit out of the pepper.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I wasn't saying to swing like him. I was saying its good to turn your hips more than 45 degrees. Not everyone can, but if you can, you should. You were saying to resist that at 45 degrees.

I no more said stop turning your hips at 45 degrees than I said stop turning your shoulders at 90 degrees. I put those values in brackets as averages but didn't say stop there. If you can turn your shoulders 180 and your hips 90 degrees go for it. I said you shouldn't be turning your hips as far as your shoulders but of course you'd be hard pressed to find someone who could turn their hips as far as their shoulders.

Go back and reread it............

As usual here, people pick try and pick the nat shit out of the pepper.

I did re-read it. It wasn't clear. That's your fault, not mine. Don't take it personally that I'm calling you out on a poorly worded post you made.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I did re-read it. It wasn't clear. That's your fault, not mine. Don't take it personally that I'm calling you out on a poorly worded post you made.

I'm not and it was about as poorly worded (perhaps poorly read as well) as you posting a pic of Bubba to underscore your hip turn, leg straightening posting. Guys post a picture of a Pro whose spent years grooving his swing to say 'see, he does it!!'

Just because a Pro does a particular thing, doesn't mean the average hacker here should try to emulate that. The guy does it for a living, spent years grooving it and therefore talented enough to play that way.

Let me find a picture of Jim Furyk because hell if he can win while swinging that way, we should all do it.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I did re-read it. It wasn't clear. That's your fault, not mine. Don't take it personally that I'm calling you out on a poorly worded post you made.

I'm not and it was about as poorly worded (perhaps poorly read as well) as you posting a pic of Bubba to underscore your hip turn, leg straightening posting. Guys post a picture of a Pro whose spent years grooving his swing to say 'see, he does it!!'

Just because a Pro does a particular thing, doesn't mean the average hacker here should try to emulate that. The guy does it for a living, spent years grooving it and therefore talented enough to play that way.

Let me find a picture of Jim Furyk because hell if he can win while swinging that way, we should all do it.

While I agree we all shouldn't just do something because one particular pro does it, the turning of the hips and not trying to resist them on the backswing is common among the game's great players. Most people get told to resist their lower body, and I was pointing out to not do that. Sure if you are swaying your hips backwards that's bad -- but turning your hips a lot? That's good.

Yes, these guys have been grooving their swings for a very long time -- but turning your hips more is exactly what an unathletic, older golfer should do. It's not a move that requires great athleticism. It's not turning your hips that much that is the athletic and flexible move that most people can't do. So basically, it's the exact opposite of what you are saying.

[hanalei]

Ok after months of flipping, I FINALLY FIXED IT. Apparently my shoulders were pausing slightly before and after impact, basically going all arms. I googled a great utube video which explained this. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Mgv4hdVJ6_Y&desktop;_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMgv4hdVJ6_Y assume my shoulder turn got lazy, or got over focused on exacting impact, whatever it was I have resolved my issue by continuous SHOULDER TURN. What a joy it was to get penetrating flight again..

[TourSpoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

Flipping for 200, Alex.

The theme song for the popular 60s TV show comes to mind...

Quote:

They call him Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning,
No-one you see, is smarter than he

As the song eloquently points out, Flipper is fast, so fast that it is hard to detect with the naked eye. Being that he is so crafty, he is most likely to be caught by a video camera not a tuna net. Once you have isolated the problem, you can recognize the symptoms quickly and follow some of the sage advice presented above so that you have forward shaft lean at impact which will lower your trajectory and bring back some of that lost distance. Flipping is power sapping and forward shaft lean at impact (along with a few other things done correctly) will give you power and finesse to spare.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by hanalei

I FINALLY FIXED IT.

Never, ever...ever jinx yourself like this.  Trust me.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I subscribe to the 'X-factor stretch' you refer to. To stretch something, there needs to be resistance which is the lower body not turning as far (45 deg) as the shoulders (90+). If you don't brace your lower body (your right leg for righties), you may slide backwards with your hips instead of turning them.

The X-Factor Stretch is a downswing/transition move. It has little to do with the backswing. It refers to the hips both sliding and turning during the downswing while the shoulders remain or sometimes even continue to turn back.

It has little to do with restricting or resisting during the backswing at all, and in fact there's no real "resisting" at all in the X-Factor Stretch.

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by iacas

The X-Factor Stretch is a downswing/transition move. It has little to do with the backswing. It refers to the hips both sliding and turning during the downswing while the shoulders remain or sometimes even continue to turn back.

It has little to do with restricting or resisting during the backswing at all, and in fact there's no real "resisting" at all in the X-Factor Stretch.

there isn't now - but that is McClean's revised version. When he originally came out with the theory, he talked more about resisting in the backswing to create coil in the core or elastic energy. This got a load of pro's teaching everyone to coil up in the backswing and resist with the hips. Trust me, I was exposed to that teaching as a player and it took a bit of time to get away from it and get my hips moving naturally once more.

McClean revised his ideas more recently regarding the x factor, and as far as I am aware, it is more sound now.

Still don't think it should get 'taught' though

[Pablo68]

Gotta give some props to Steve at Edwin Watts Golf Store in Newnan, GA.

I wanted to have my Ping I3s checked to make sure they were the standard lie and loft since I purchased them used off of Ebay back in May. He first asked my concern and I told him that I am (and always have been hitting the ball high) and he just nodded politely then checked my clubs (for free btw). He found them to be standard loft & lie but then suggesed he knew what my issue was. Then he had me swing my 7 iron with some impact tape on the sole of the club and the results were pretty obvious.The impact tape revealed I was flipping pretty bad as the trailing edge was where I was contacting the impact board. A minor adjustment in my setup to get the proper shaft lean had me striking the tape more towards the front immediately and in the couple days since, I've picked up nearly 10+ yards with each club.

290 yd carry with a 3 wood + backspin? Not quite but with the improved distances, I've stopped looking around on Ebay for Mizunos as I'm hitting these Ping I3s just fine.

No charge for that tip from Steve btw but I did end up buying midsize grips from him for my clubs.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Gotta give some props to Steve at Edwin Watts Golf Store in Newnan, GA.

I wanted to have my Ping I3s checked to make sure they were the standard lie and loft since I purchased them used off of Ebay back in May. He first asked my concern and I told him that I am (and always have been hitting the ball high) and he just nodded politely then checked my clubs (for free btw). He found them to be standard loft & lie but then suggesed he knew what my issue was. Then he had me swing my 7 iron with some impact tape on the sole of the club and the results were pretty obvious.The impact tape revealed I was flipping pretty bad as the trailing edge was where I was contacting the impact board. A minor adjustment in my setup to get the proper shaft lean had me striking the tape more towards the front immediately and in the couple days since, I've picked up nearly 10+ yards with each club.

290 yd carry with a 3 wood + backspin? Not quite but with the improved distances, I've stopped looking around on Ebay for Mizunos as I'm hitting these Ping I3s just fine.

No charge for that tip from Steve btw but I did end up buying midsize grips from him for my clubs.

Nice!

God I hate flipping.