Consistent major slice - 2nd shot on almost every hole is a drop

[Nee Chi]

Hi all, first time poster, just signed up today because I was wondering if anyone here might be able to help me sort out the major problem in my swing.

I know the obvious answer is "get lessons from a pro" but I'm relatively poor and have no transport of my own, and I don't fancy an hour each way on a bus with my golf clubs to get to the nearest course with a pro, so I'm kinda stuck with watching youtube vids and trying to describe my problem in forums for the time being.

I started playing golf when I was about 14-15 years old, but was always struggling with it and pretty much stopped playing when I was about 17 and didn't touch a club again until 6 months ago.  I'm now 37, and have suddenly completely fallen in love with the game again, but I have a serious problem with my swing that I need to sort out if I'm going to start getting anywhere near reducing my handicap below the maximum, and I think this has happened because I'm 6 inches taller now than when I played as a youth.

Essentially, 95% of my tee shots leave the tee 5-10 degrees to the right of where they should, and then proceed to curl wildly to the right, meaning that when I'm playing on a hole that is anything other than a convenient right-hand dogleg, my "2nd shot" is a drop.

It's not just te driver either, nor is it isolated to tee shots.  Hybrid off the fairway does the same thing, and it happens with long irons too, though it's less noticable with wedges and the 1 or 2 shortest irons.

At first I was trying to compensate for it because it is so consistent.  I experimented with closing the club face, closing my stance (a friend's advice, that seems slightly counterintuitive to me, but I tried it anyway), and I even began aiming 30 degrees left of where I wanted to the ball to go, just to end up somewhere near the fairway, but clearly this isn't the right way to sort out what is obviously a major problem with my game.

I tried concentrating on different aspects of a shot - changing grips (4 different ones), trying to concentrate on foot position, how much my hips are turning, which arm I'm doing most of the work with during the swing (I was using my right arm a bit too much at first, apparently), wrist action, elbow positions, left arm straightness at peak of backswing, keeping my head down, not looking up too early, weight distribution through the swing... but nothing was helping.

And so I watching the golf on TV last week, paying attention to the pros' swings, and noticed their arm positions at setup seem to be pointing vertically downwards, whereas I think mine are usually at more of an angle with the vertical, so that if I were viewed from behind, there's a straight line through my arms and down the club shaft that would make a triangle with ground and the vertical down from my shoulders.

I think what is happening is that because of this incorrect angle, at impact the face of the club is slicing through the ball in the way a table-tennis player might try to curl the ball, rather than the club face hitting on a straight plane through the ball.

So, having spotted that I'm doing this, I've tried on the range to correct it, but does anyone have any exercises or advice for how to best retrain myself to swing properly?

A couple of friends have started playing recently for the first time, but have been getting lessons, and they're already beating me regularly... and one of them even has slightly deformed arms that he can't straighten past an elbow angle of about 30 degrees from straight.

I desperately need to sort this out, so I would be incredibly grateful for any help.

Thanks in advance.

[Bullitt5339]

#1 tip:  Stop trying to emulate what you see the pros doing.  Most of them are superheroes compared to us.

#2:  Videotape your swing.  You'd be surprised how ugly it is in person, I was.

#3:  Post the video and get feedback and drills from the members and pros here.

#4:  Take a lesson.  I know you said you're financially challenged right now, but you can get a 30 minute lesson for $30-$40 in most places, which will really help you out if you work on the fundamentals and drills (homework) that the instructor gives you.  That's about the same price as a cheap round of golf, and taking one lesson a month and playing one round a month less will be huge for a beginner.

I am hard-headed, old and stubborn.  I was having problems with my driver for a few months, but just kept going and playing instead of getting a lesson.  I don't like lessons, I don't like practicing, I like playing golf.  But I found myself not having fun on the course because of errant drives.  I scheduled a 30 minute lesson on Friday and he immediately saw what I was doing wrong.  I was collapsing my left arm on the downswing, which was causing all kinds of problems.  I also had a problem with setup consistency.  I wasn't setting up the same every time, so I wasn't hitting the same miss every time.  30 minutes later, I wasn't instantly hitting 280 yard bullets, but I knew what I was doing wrong, and what I needed to work on to correct it.  I will work on it for 2 weeks and then go back to work on some other problems I have.  He's very serious about only giving me one or two things to work on at a time.  The one thing I noticed immediately was the the consistent setup when applied to my irons, which were already decent, made them 100 times more consistent.  I typically hit my 7 iron 150 yards, but applying the small changes, which were easy to learn and do, I hit a perfect 7 iron into a 158 yard Par 3 and actually was 10 yards past the hole.

[Divotmaker77]

I will agree with what the second poster said.  You need to get some video done of your swing from both angles (behind and front) and post on here.  There are a lot of folks who are willing to give you some free advice on what you are doing wrong.  Just guessing your swing path is coming in over-the-top which is what the majority of slicers do.

[Nee Chi]

Originally Posted by Bullitt5339

#1 tip:  Stop trying to emulate what you see the pros doing.  Most of them are superheroes compared to us.

#2:  Videotape your swing.  You'd be surprised how ugly it is in person, I was.

#3:  Post the video and get feedback and drills from the members and pros here.

#4:  Take a lesson.  I know you said you're financially challenged right now, but you can get a 30 minute lesson for $30-$40 in most places, which will really help you out if you work on the fundamentals and drills (homework) that the instructor gives you.  That's about the same price as a cheap round of golf, and taking one lesson a month and playing one round a month less will be huge for a beginner.

I am hard-headed, old and stubborn.  I was having problems with my driver for a few months, but just kept going and playing instead of getting a lesson.  I don't like lessons, I don't like practicing, I like playing golf.  But I found myself not having fun on the course because of errant drives.  I scheduled a 30 minute lesson on Friday and he immediately saw what I was doing wrong.  I was collapsing my left arm on the downswing, which was causing all kinds of problems.  I also had a problem with setup consistency.  I wasn't setting up the same every time, so I wasn't hitting the same miss every time.  30 minutes later, I wasn't instantly hitting 280 yard bullets, but I knew what I was doing wrong, and what I needed to work on to correct it.  I will work on it for 2 weeks and then go back to work on some other problems I have.  He's very serious about only giving me one or two things to work on at a time.  The one thing I noticed immediately was the the consistent setup when applied to my irons, which were already decent, made them 100 times more consistent.  I typically hit my 7 iron 150 yards, but applying the small changes, which were easy to learn and do, I hit a perfect 7 iron into a 158 yard Par 3 and actually was 10 yards past the hole.

Hi, and thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I really would like to get proper lessons, and I'm trying to talk a couple of friends into it so that I can get a lift there.  Money's only half the problem, and if I could actually easily get to a course with a pro, it's something I'd definitely do, but to do so on my own would involve half an hour each way in a taxi, costing probably around 4 times as much as the lesson itself.

I'll take my video camera along the next time I go to a range or a course and take it from there, I guess.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

[Strike One]

I'm no expert, but being self taught I've been down the road you're on. If you think about it, a slice is the product of either an open face, or the head coming across the ball from the outside in. The causes of these conditions are myriad: swaying back, not turning your shoulders enough, starting your hands early on the downswing etc. All those things alter your swing plane to an outside in swing.

An exercise you might want to try, to get the feel of a better swing plane, is to watch where your shoulders go during the swing. Your shoulders determine the axis of the plane your club follows. Try tucking your left shoulder just under your chin on the back swing, then your right shoulder should come under the chin on the down swing. Let your right shoulder lift your head after impact.

Another thing to be aware of is the flying right elbow. That will have a tendency to push your plane outside in. Keep your right elbow down.

Like I said, I'm no pro, but those things have helped me in the past and hopefully will help you too.

[uttexas]

Simply stated, a slice is caused by an out to in swing path, not an open club face. All good advice, definitely post a video. A quick fix (without seeing your swing) would be to close your stance and close your shoulders at address. Odds are you are coming over the top. Closing your shoulders (line from your right shoulder to your left shoulder at address points to the right) and closing your stance will promote a more in to out swing path and enable you to enjoy the game more right away by making an easy change at address. You might continue to slice until you fix the root cause, but less severely.

[StumpShot]

I've been working on the same issue and have only recently had success in semi consistent correction. For me it was a two fold problem. 1) The ball was leaving 5-10 degrees off my target line and 2) once in the air it would slice hard and break right. It was 2 problems with the same stem. My hands were not turning over fast enough prior to the moment of impact, so my club face was striking the ball half open. This was causing the ball to start it's trajectory wide right. And because my stance is lined up with the target line, my clubs angle of impact was putting a LOT of clockwise spin on the ball.

I slowed down and went to the basics of my downswing. I realized I was gripping my club way too tight in anticipation of the hit. Correcting this did wonders for my hands turning over properly. Less tension meant my hands would do this more naturally without me having to "actively" force them over in some awkward motion. One thing I did actively focus on was initiating and following through my downswing with my left shoulder rather than my left hand. Newbie mistake but I'm a newbie so que sera sera!

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by uttexas

Simply stated, a slice is caused by an out to in swing path, not an open club face. All good advice, definitely post a video. A quick fix (without seeing your swing) would be to close your stance and close your shoulders at address. Odds are you are coming over the top. Closing your shoulders (line from your right shoulder to your left shoulder at address points to the right) and closing your stance will promote a more in to out swing path and enable you to enjoy the game more right away by making an easy change at address. You might continue to slice until you fix the root cause, but less severely.

An out to in swing path with a closed face will cause you to pull the ball.  It's a combination of the swing path being out to in with the face being open to the path.  The face could be pointed at the target line, but would still be open in relation to the path, which imparts right spin and hence a slice.

[Nee Chi]

Thanks for your help everyone, much appreciated.

Incidentally, does anyone have a link to a recommended "absolute beginner's step-by-step golf swing guide 101" video?  I've scoured youtube, but mostly keep coming across videos that say "buy our special gloves and then follow these instructions for a perfect grip" or the like, so I was wondering if there's a "this guy is the best online video-teacher for the absolute basics" that someone could point me towards.

I watched all the stack-and-tilt / golf evolution vids in their 80-something vid playlist, but many of them are just slowed down vids of the star golf "supermen" that I shouldn't be trying to emulate.

[Bullitt5339]

Originally Posted by Nee Chi

I watched all the stack-and-tilt / golf evolution vids in their 80-something vid playlist, but many of them are just slowed down vids of the star golf "supermen" that I shouldn't be trying to emulate.

Don't get that wrong, the fundamentals taught by golf evolution and stack and tilt are great fundamentals, especially if you practice the drills they give you.  Just don't watch Dustin Johnson's swing and try to emulate it at first in it's entirety, work on drills and correcting one or two things at a time until they're ingraned into your muscle memory and then fix something else.  Golf is a game of small steps to end up with a mediocre swing.  OK, well that's just me, but it takes a long time to incorporate changes into your swing to where you don't have to think about individual pieces anymore.

[Skillet]

Originally Posted by Nee Chi

Essentially, 95% of my tee shots leave the tee 5-10 degrees to the right of where they should, and then proceed to curl wildly to the right, meaning that when I'm playing on a hole that is anything other than a convenient right-hand dogleg, my "2nd shot" is a drop.

If you're hitting a push slice, which it sounds like you're doing, then it sounds like an open club face resulting in the push and inside/out swing path.

Try taking a stronger grip.  The V - formed by your thumb/forefinger on the left hand should be pointed towards your right shoulder.  That should help square your face at impact.

There are several drills for correcting swing path... but the best I've found is videoing myself... seeing what I'm doing wrong and taking baby steps to correct it.  Muscle memory is a pain to overcome.

[SacGolf89]

It may have been stated earlier but I was in the same boat. I flattened out my swing path and now I tend to hit it straight or have a slight draw. Try doing that a few times and see how it works. It will feel funny, but it can help

[Russtopher]

Much like the OP, I played a bit as a teen and stopped for around 20 years. I just took it up again this summer at the age of 36, and battled a nasty slice right from the get-go.

The three things that helped me get slowly get rid of it:

-Slower, more relaxed swing. I was trying to kill the ball and gripping too tightly. A more relaxed grip and a slower swing helped a lot.

-Stronger grip

-Getting my hips moving. I was nearly all arms, and videotaping my swing made me see that immediately. Once I got my body used to starting my downswing with my hips, it cleared up any OTT tendencies.

[Nee Chi]

Well, I'm at the course tomorrow, a "nice" one that a few of us are visiting with groupons.  I get a chance to hit the driving range first, so I'm going to give Stack & Tilt a try, (from what I've managed to glean from the youtube videos anyway).

Can't wait.  I'll let you know how I get on.

It looks pretty evil on a couple of holes... large ponds to play over etc., so if I get round in less than double-par I'll be happy. :-)

Then again, maybe everything will suddenly click on the range and I'll be able to hit straight for a change.

[inthehole]

Flatten your backswing - don't take it up so high.   Mine was too steep - once I flattened it out & got things more on plane, I actually began drawing it.     Keep your head centered throughout the swing too.    Try this, you'll like it ...

[Nee Chi]

I decided to bite the bullet and buy the S & T book last night after I left here... Kindle version.

Finger crossed, here's to the end of being a rubbish golfer.

So excited about today... couldn't sleep last night.  I was like a kid at Christmas.

Beautiful day for it too, by the look of it.  Hopefully it'll stay this way.

[Nee Chi]

Well, i just got back, and I'm over the moon with day 1 of stack and tilt...

Went into this new course hoping for double-par (as usual) and managed a 128, a whole 12 shots beneath double-par!

MUCH fewer drivers off the tee spannered off to the right, and my irons were very consistent.

All in all I'm feeling great about S&T; and can't wait to get stuck into the book properly and improve further.