success stories with stack and tilt swing

[laconic517]

I know you're joking around but that's just a bad analogy. Baddeley was really struggling with his swing before he got hooked up to this method.

when he was younger it was fine though. Maybe he just got a few flaws into his swing and lost confidence or something, the guy won the austrailian open at 18 or 19 and had plenty of game, I doubt he was using the stack and tilt then. Then again maybe he prayed to "my lord and savior jesus christ" and he helped him out. No problem with the guy or his beliefs but tone it down a bit in public.

[Ringer]

I know you're joking around but that's just a bad analogy. Baddeley was really struggling with his swing before he got hooked up to this method.

GIR/Driving Acc/Driving Distance

2000 - 56.1%/59.6%/282.4 2001 - 55.3%/62.1%/278.9 2002 - 64.4%/70.0%/308.8 2003 - 60.53%/56.16%/287.9 2004 - 58.2%/53.1%/288.0 2005 - 60.8%/53.3%/291.4 2006 - 58.26%/60.73%/288.3 2007 - 58.44%/61.40%/287.9 I don't see any major jump. Looks like he's right where he's always been. FWIW up until this year he was with Leadbetter.

[iacas]

GIR/Driving Acc/Driving Distance

Uh, there's a bit more to scoring and playing good golf than driving.

[Ringer]

Uh, there's a bit more to scoring and playing good golf than driving.

I agree, but I thought this thread was about stack and tilt, not short game.

[$2 Nassau]

Uh, there's a bit more to scoring and playing good golf than driving.

Very true words. But GIR is mentioned in those stats as well. All long game aspects pretty much covered for the S&T; conversation.

Look at those stats from '02. Wow.

[Cleveland Gunmetal]

Look at those stats from '02. Wow.

LOL

Badds played in a grand total of three events that year. Shows how misleading "stats" can be. Not sure where those 2000 stats came from but I don't think they were from the PGA tour.

GIR/Driving Acc/Driving Distance

So I should stop listening to Baddeley talk about how improved his swing and ball striking is and go by your numbers? I'll believe Baddeley. How about wins? Two years in a row with a win... and he's contending quite a bit because he has a lot of confidence in this swing. Or how about Top 10's? He's got 5 this year which already ties his career best from 2005.

[Ringer]

LOL

The 2000 stats are from Nationwide tour... they're listed on the PGA Tour website. I don't know if you teach at all, or what your level of experience is with instruction...but there is almost always a honeymoon period. Sometimes it's short, sometimes it's long. The player gets excited because during a few sessions they hit it better, but in the long run they overstate their actual abilities. Just making a few more top 5's isn't going to convince me that the S&T; method is far superior to his old swing. When a player gets excited about something and works hard at it because it's fun, the confidence level goes up and the practice becomes more focused. We'll see how many events he's won in the next couple years before we should really make a decision about S&T.; My money is that it's no better (in fact inferior in some cases) than an average golf swing philosophy. Admitedly this is not based on first hand interaction with Bennett and Plummer but rather my review of the items in the article and the swings I'm seeing their students make. It's not really a huge deviation from a modern fundamentals swing really. They've just managed to find a way to manipulate the hip turn. Something that CAN be useful as a short term solution IMO, but definately not something I would try to have someone do full time. Compensations will eventually be made by the player and those compensations can be devistating.

[Cleveland Gunmetal]

but there is almost always a honeymoon period. Sometimes it's short, sometimes it's long. The player gets excited because during a few sessions they hit it better, but in the long run they overstate their actual abilities.

I understand that. But it's not like we're talking about a few weeks here. I don't know

exactly how long Baddeley has been working with Plummer/Bennett but I do know he was when he won Verizon and that was over a year ago. He has been a much better player the last year, year and a half. You can agree with that, right? Listen, if he scraps the concept in the near future then I'll listen. But just by watching regular PGA tour events it looks to me like he keeps getting better and more consistant.

[Ringer]

I don't know how long exactly either but definately for 2007. He did move up a few spots this year from previous years in rankings. I just think it has more to do with his confidence than the swing mechanics.

[iacas]

I understand that. But it's not like we're talking about a few weeks here. I don't know

He's been working with them since early 2006, I believe, perhaps even late 2005. The Heritage win was one of the first for a Plummer/Bennett student.

[iacas]

Please post comments here:

http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/...stack_and_tilt

Give the article a read, first, but comments - positive or negative - about Stack and Tilt are being accepted there.

[Cleveland Gunmetal]

Please post comments here:

Just posted! Curious to read others. Good article.

[Diggitydog]

I am posting this under the success column because I have just committed to making the change and success is the only option.
I am a very dedicated learner. I'm a 10 handicap and hit the ball longer than average. I'm very fussy about my swing and have reached capitulation with my conventional swing. My teacher is a Leadbetter student and a very good instructor. I've been working with him for 3 seasons, I live in the cold of Canada so my season is SHORT. Every season it seems to big a big ramp up to get back into form and every year I improve, the issue has been that once I get into mid season form I am not consistent. When I hit the ball well it's a thing of beauty but when it's wrong it's off the planet!!! The issue has been building a swing that is repeatable with layoffs in between. Even without layoffs I struggle with consistency. The biggest thing for me is to keep the ball in play with my driver. It used to be that I would overswing, but I've outgrown that and it's still inconsistent. Now THAT is frustrating. I've had rounds in the high 70's this season but they are too far between. To shorten up the post I've basically scrambled my way around the course due to errant tee shots mostly. My current swing is basically a Leadbetter version of the 2 plane if that makes sense. I am also thinking that my natural shot is more of a one plane but my teacher likes 2 plane and that's what I've been doing. He didn't push me that way really but that's what I've ended up with. I also struggle to work the ball left at all. It's all about managing my fade. That's not so much fun all the time either. I like to hit it both directions.

I almost changed to Stack and Tilt early this season but held off due to lack of Pros that will teach the method locally, specifically no Pros that I know about in my area. I tried it out early this season but abandoned it quickly after talking with my instructor and having one bad range session using Stack and Tilt. I've had tons of bad sessions with my conventional swing but stuck with it for 3 years. The thing that is so tough about the swing is the idea that some of the fundamentals of Stack and Tilt are 100% polar opposite of the conventional swing. It's hard to be unique in something like golf because even good players struggle from time to time and how do you explain your swing differences as being a good thing when the ball is going all directions except the fairway? The main difference is that you have an instructor to fall back on to ask questions. This swing feels like installing a new software package without support. You know it is a good thing but you know you'll need support too. After another season of inconsistent ball striking I have decided to give it the 100% commitment for better or worse at least until the end of 2008 golf season. I have read the posts about short circuiting the wiring etc and I am familiar with that in my own swing but the main reason that I am changing is that the move in the backswing and downswing is natural to me. I took to this swing like a duck to water. I can remember a post by IACAS about being "Flat as all get out" That was me and this swing is FLAT that's for sure. Also the one piece takeaway and hip action is already close to what I do so bottom line is I'm gonna give this a go. I've had 1 range session with it, haven't researched it extensively so I'll continue to update my progress or lack thereof in the future. Unfortunately for me I have 6 weeks left in my season and then it's hockey so I will do some indoor work at the golf dome this winter and be ready for Spring 2008.

Things I've noticed about this swing so far
-Distances with clubs seem to be similar. I hit it far before so even if I'm down a bit but accuracy goes up I'll be happy
-Swing seems much simpler to me. Feels like that one piece action and the plane is easy to match compared to conventional.
-My finish with the clubs is shorter and boxed up just like Mr. Luke Donald. I'm pretty happy about that.

Wish me luck, "I'm going in!"

[Diggitydog]

Does anybody have an internet link or video of the CBS coverage that they gave about Stack and Tilt during the U.S. Open? I looked on Youtube but nothing I could find.

[North49]

I, like Diggity above, live in a Northern climate (Winnipeg). And I have also decided to give stack and tilt a try for one full season. I have played 3 rounds using it with some OK results. I've developed some many bad habits this year I'm a little frigged up and hope that eventually one pro here will start teaching the swing. The main reason I am going to give it a try is that my right leg has always straightened on my back swing. So I may as well use that to my advantage. Lean on the left side and let the club go. I hope to squeeze in 20 more rounds before the snow flies in late October and hope to report some good results and hopefully break 80 5 times out of the 20.

[supercow]

Does anybody have an internet link or video of the CBS coverage that they gave about Stack and Tilt during the U.S. Open? I looked on Youtube but nothing I could find.

Not one hundred percent sure what you're after but here's analysis of Baddeley's swing:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzUd7o5stQ as well as an interesting analysis of the theory by one teacher: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=juYpfv...elated&search;=

[Diggitydog]

Thanks for those video links, I do like the analysis of Baddeley's swing as you can see he is actually using the S&T; swing. On the second video it seems like the instructor is trying to put his own flavor on the swing as if he knows more than Plummer and Bennett about Stack and Tilt. Honestly I don't know the geometry, in fact I don't even think i can spell it correctly, about the S&T; swing but one thing I do know is that it works.

Somebody was talking about a US Open telecast piece that was done about S&T; using Baddeley as the subject. They went through S&T; in detail explaining it. I would like to get my hands on that video for reference. Unless Golf Digest does a Stack and Tilt regular piece. BTW, I wonder how Leadbetter likes being in the same book as Stack and Tilt, he probably cuts out and throws away that section when he's flipping through to see how he looks on his instruction pages.

I still can't believe how solidly I'm hitting the ball with this swing from lob wedge up to my Driver.

North49, I'm in Saskatoon SK so if you find a solid S&T; teacher let me know, this swing is awesome but I'm a believer in getting coached with whatever movement you're doing. All the more reason that my personal success with S&T; has surprised me, I did it by reading a couple articles. My conventional swing was a 3 year labour of love. S&T; was a couple range buckets. I think my understanding of the conventional swing has crossover for sure, so I'm not pissed about wasting time on my other swing.

Honestly at first I was a little worried about how the swing looked with the "tilting / reverse pivot" move but after I started hitting solid shots I wasn't worried at all.

[doublesuited77]

people new to the swing need to understand that the tilt is much more important than the stack since they generate the power and enable you to get back to square at impact. Most of the people I have seen who try the swing and fail never commit to the tilt portion of it and end up hitting shots with a wide open clubface.