Ball flight laws.......can someone explain this

[logman]

So part of this LPG swing style I've been trying to learn has a VERY inside to out swing path...... about 10% angle to straight. At the same time the split handed grip drives through the ball with my bottom hand driving over my top hand with what feels like a totally closed face angle. I've never felt such a "rolled over" bottom hand in my golf previously. It feels like every ball should be headed into the scrub with a huge hook. But what I can't figure out is the ball flight......usually straight or sometimes with a slight draw.

My question to the ball flight gurus is: Is what I'm feeling wrong or shouldnt my ball flight be a big hook. Am I completely wrong about this? I thought a strong inside to out swing path combined with a closing face would give me a BIG hook

[MEfree]

maybe your face is not as closed as you think it is at impact...it could be closing AFTER impact...if you are hitting a straight on straight shot some of the time, then I suspect you are not as in to out as you think you are either.

[colin007]

Are you sure that you have a 10 degree inside to out swing? Because if you did, that coupled with a clubface pointed at the target would cause a snap hook. Rolling the hands over like that creates a huge element of timing to your swing, and isn't really what adds the hook spin. The difference between the club face angle and swing path is what creates the spin.

[Big C]

Others can correct me if I am mistaken but I believe the term "closing clubface" is a bit misleading. Whether the club is opening, closing, or straightaway is nearly inconsequential in comparison to the angle of the face at the exact moment of impact. You may indeed be in the process of closing the face during your downswing (which doesn't sound like a recipe for consistency, but what the hell do I know?), but if your ballflight is as described above, you are still a fraction open in relation to your target when you make contact with the ball.

[logman]

It's a weird feeling, like I'm covering over the ball with the face of the club even if I'm not. Ha ha.  But I guess it must be another one of those feelings not being what is actually hapening.

[colin007]

Originally Posted by Big C

Others can correct me if I am mistaken but I believe the term "closing clubface" is a bit misleading. Whether the club is opening, closing, or straightaway is nearly inconsequential in comparison to the angle of the face at the exact moment of impact. You may indeed be in the process of closing the face during your downswing (which doesn't sound like a recipe for consistency, but what the hell do I know?), but if your ballflight is as described above, you are still a fraction open in relation to your target when you make contact with the ball.

no, this is pretty much correct.  a straight ball means the clubface matches the path at impact.  and actively closing the face is indeed a recipe for inconsistency.

[dak4n6]

The ball flight does not lie. Your face must be closing after impact. As to why you feel like it is closed at impact, I'm clueless with that LPG stuff..

[colin007]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

The ball flight does not lie. Your face must be closing after impact. As to why you feel like it is closed at impact, I'm clueless with that LPG stuff..

correct.  if its starting at the target and staying more or less straight then the clubface is pointing at the target at impact and the clubface is square to the path.

[mdl]

I'll refrain from commenting on the LPG swing :)

But I do have experience with experimenting with actively rolling the wrists.  It's VERY easy to do this in a way that essentially creates a hump in your swing path, pushing the club head quickly away from you then snapping it back towards you.  So you end up with a path very out to in relative to the path you were following prior to rolling the wrists.  I'd guess this is what you're doing, especially if you've got the hands separated on the grip.  You're coming from the inside, then rolling the wrists hard which pulls the path of the club head back to the left.  Since you're timing it well you end up with a straight shot.

[Audaxi]

To answer your question about ballflight laws, I'll give you an example that should help you visualize what might be happening in your swing. Imagine setting a ball on an endless desk, and sliding a ruler with a straight face at the ball and through it. This will create a shot that starts straight, and stays straight. If you stay on that straight path, but close the ruler's face to the path, the ball will start left, and curve left. However, if you keep a straight clubface to the path you want the ball to start on, and slide the ruler outside of that and through the ball, it will start straight, but curve back to the left (assuming a right-handed player's perspective). The clubface dictates somewhere around 85% of a ball's starting direction, while the difference between face angle and swing path is what causes spin. From what you are describing, it sounds like you are timing it correctly, and releasing the clubface to square, but you also seem to be swinging straight towards the target at impact. Also, I would advise against swinging on a 10* in-to-out swing path, unless someone you really dislike happens to be a fairway or two to the left of your intended target. A 10* difference between clubface angle and swing path will cause tremendous sidespin, unless that is what you hope to accomplish with your swing.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by Audaxi

To answer your question about ballflight laws, I'll give you an example that should help you visualize what might be happening in your swing. Imagine setting a ball on an endless desk, and sliding a ruler with a straight face at the ball and through it. This will create a shot that starts straight, and stays straight. If you stay on that straight path, but close the ruler's face to the path, the ball will start left, and curve left.

You can't smile or laugh while doing this exercise?

[Audaxi]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

You can't smile or laugh while doing this exercise?

You can, but it might skew the results. I've heard stories of parts of the face beginning to curve if you smile. Sometimes, if you laugh, it can go so far as to create a hole in the face, which would certainly create unstable data.

[logman]

Thanks folks, I guess the feelings of a closed face and an inside to out swing path is amplified when I go from the LPG style back to conventional style. Hitting with the straight front arm /cocked wrist/ big shoulder turn swing feels very benign....in terms of swing path and forearm turnover. Then if I switch back to the bent front arm/ locked front wrist / split grip and reduced shoulder turn of LPG it seems like my natural inclination is going to be a big hook .....but it just doesn't . The ball flight says everything I guess.Still its a nice feeling setting up for a swing and knowing the ball flight is going straight or with a slight draw.

[iacas]

It's highly unlikely that your path is out as much as you think it is. Split hand grips and active rolling of the clubface through impact both tend to send the path to the left (for a righty).