How do you get that shaft to bisect the bicep in the downswing?

[NotBillCosby]

Assuming the takeaway is good and the downswing is initiated with the proper hip bump/turn, how does one get in the slot and have the shaft bisect the bicep late in the downswing for a flatter plane rather than a steep plane?

[Beachcomber]

1.) Maintain your inclination to the ground (Steady head).

2.) Proper shaft loading - left wrist hinge/cock.

3.) Proper placement of the right elbow/tricep.

I'd ensure you are doing the right things in the back swing, to get you on plane during the down swing... So study what is going on in A1 to A4... Then you will be in a better position to hit the alignments between A5 and A6 (shaft bisecting the bicep).

One thing that helped me get into better positions on the down swing, was understanding how to implement a one plane swing pattern.

[JetFan1983]

To add to the above: Forearm roll of the leading arm has a lot to do with it as well: like how much and where/when in the swing. Rotate it a lot to your right (for righties), and you get a much flatter shaft angle. Rotate it a lot to your left, and you get a much steeper shaft angle. Slicers rotate it to the left both a lot and too early in the downswing.

Swinging too much with your shoulders and not enough with your lower body can steepen the shaft as well.

[saevel25]

Alot of pressure on the front foot during the downswing, proper loading and unloading of the golf club (do not cast the club).

I would practice with a mirror, get into a proper weight forward position, and then put the club on the plane you want and feel how your body moves. I'll do this a lot, i will get my weight on the front, push the hips forward, keep the correct spine tilt, then i will rotate back to a backswing position, and hold it there. Check to see were its at, maybe move the club up and down the plane i want to get a feel for it, then i will snap through and hit a ball. When i do this i can hit some serious good shots. Its shocking how much power you can generate from that position, and your hands.

Alot of times, if you have that, its hard to come over the top because the weight of club will be such that it will travel on the correct plane. Once you get the club traveling its nearly impossible to redirect the clubpath before impact. You can kinda save a shot by holding off wrist rotation or over rotate the wrist, but its minimal at best.

[JetFan1983]

This video Erik made recently is informative on this subject:

[NotBillCosby]

So more forearm roll to the right and keeping it that way until you backhand the golf ball is what is meant by "keeping a flat left wrist". Combined with a proper weight shift will put you in the position for a flatter shaft in the downswing and thus the position where you get the shaft to bisect the bicep.  Am I getting this correct?

[Mr. Desmond]

I don't like to use the term "roll." I think it promotes the "flapping back" of the wrists.

I prefer to think of a natural rotation of the arms while keeping the arms and elbows close to one another.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I don't like to use the term "roll." I think it promotes the "flapping back" of the wrists.

I prefer to think of a natural rotation of the arms while keeping the arms and elbows close to one another.

Yea, perhaps roll isn't the best term, but it's pretty clear. Not sure what "flapping back" of the wrists means though.

I'd like it to be natural too, but unfortunately, it's not natural for a lot of people.

To be a bit more specific about this, I was referring to forearm roll late in the backswing, and then not rotating it to the left early in the downswing.

People generally snatch the club behind them in the takeaway with a lot of forearm roll, achieving little to no depth . You generally don't want much roll early in the swing (especially if you excessively roll it with your natural swing); however, later in the backswing, you want enough roll to stay on the plane (is this what you were referring to Mr.D?).

This sample lesson from evolvr explains parts of this:

So you'd want more Ricky Fowler early (little to no forearm rolling), and then later in the backswing, you'd want to roll it quite a bit to stay on the plane.

That's the backswing forearm roll stuff, with hand path information thrown in.

On the downswing, I'd refer to that video Erik made in that post I made above. You can see how the shaft steepens significantly when using that over the top motion he demonstrates/exaggerates.

But you can clearly see if you make practice swings how forearm rolling specifically controls this shaft angle, in a vacuum. But like I said, there are correct ways and incorrect ways to do this.

The best thing you could do is to film your swing and start a My Swing Thread, sign up for evolvr lessons (which are really economical and very informative), or talking to a local pro.

Any of the things I talked about above pertain to you?

[NotBillCosby]

Hey, yea I set up two videos in the my swing section.  I saw that I am not achieving what was mentioned, but if the rotation to the left too early is a problem of mine, then I will try and correct that, along with using my right foot action.

[JetFan1983]

Oh okay. Everything poser, Beachcomber and MEFree said to you are spot on with your backswing issues. Right arm overflexing, left arm overflexing a bit, head movement up and away from its address position, and not quite enough hand depth. Feel like you are keeping both arms straight the whole time to help those first two issues, and do that wall drill where you are keeping your head on the wall the whole time during the backswing.

Downswing wise I see what you are saying now. Watch that video Erik made where he uses the tire drill. He's exaggerating what you are doing so it is clearer to see.

Also, be sure to post a face on video so we can better see your weight shift and how much your hips are moving laterally on the downswing, how much shaft lean you have, and other aspects of your moving head. It looks like your arms are overflexing here as well, but its harder to tell from down the line.

But in terms of your original question here, that Erik video with the tire points out the faults of the shaft being too steep and from the outside coming into the ball.

[Mr. Desmond]

Yes, "forearm rotation" later in the backswing and downswing ...

I think it is similar, just different terms. If I think "roll," I tend to get too handsy.

[the chopper]

Hi i would try and feel the right elbow getting under instead of over the left elbow in the downswing.  A simple drill to encourage this motion would be to get a golf trolley and drape a towel or so from it. place your balls as you practice directly underneath, obviously leave a gap so that you can see your ball and that visual obstruction should almost automatically tell your brain how to come in to the ball as you desire. Start off nice and easy and try to feel what is going on and work it into your swing. Ulimately you are talking about over the top!!!  Best of luck

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by the chopper

Hi i would try and feel the right elbow getting under instead of over the left elbow in the downswing.

Good call. We have a thread on that here.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54238/elbow-position-and-its-effects-on-the-downswing

[NotBillCosby]

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. Thanks to all that responded. I did manage to get the shaft that position and Ill have to upload this in the my swing section. Should it feel like the butt end up the club is coming up and around to the left at the end of the golfswing since it is in a circle and the left elbow is higher than the right?

[the chopper]

Thanks, hey i love this site already there are allot of very knowledgeable people so i am learning loads and trying to help others along the way too. All the best!!

[mvmac]

Beach and Jetfan basically nailed it, I'll just add the feeling of the elbowing squeezing on the downswing.  "Squeezing" meaning the distance between elbows doesn't increase.  Does a few things, gets the right elbow to move down and helps you do what Beach mentioned " 1.) Maintain your inclination to the ground (Steady head)".

Good quick video by fellow 5SK instructor Mario Bevilacqua

[NotBillCosby]

Yes sir! I saw a video of a friends swing who played pro and his right elbow seems to be pointing to the ground and the arms move as a triangular unit that whips thru. A simplification I know but I see how the pressed elbows keep that unit intact.