launch monitor fault or ????

[518TitleistX]

Ok, so...Im 30, 6'3" 200lbs and played to about an 8 handicap this past season here in upstate NY. my current bag looks like this:


46" Titleist 910D2 9.5* Project X 7C3 6.0 shaft set to A1
43.5" Titleist 910F 15* Project X 8C4 6.0 shaft set to C3
43" Titleist 904F 19* YS-6 R-Flex
Titleist AP-1 3I-PW with DG R-300 shafts (+1/2", 2* up)
Titleist Vokey spin milled 52*
Titleist 200 series 58*
Titleist Scotty Cameron 35" Squareback #2 with red "Baby T" grip
(noooo im not a titleist club ***** ROFL)

ANYWAYS...
I've been having major issues of late with over-drawing the ball or a downright hook (right handed) with my irons... Automatic assumption being due to the irons having regular flex shafts in them versus the stiff flex in the driver/3wood. Of course being christmas time i asked for $ towards a new set of irons. ultimately i got $450 to put towards a new set from my parents, a $200 christmas bonus from work and ive got a little money set aside as well, so i headed to my local proshop ( www.northway8golf.com ) last night to start my fitting process.

I've been downright DROOLING for a set of 712MB's but figured id hit the CB's as well to at least get a comparison.
Mark, my fitter sets up a CB with the DG S-300 shaft +1/2" to warm up with a little and see how it felt. Mind you all that its my first time swinging a club since mid October due to the chilly weather in NY.  It felt long and soft off the face but felt like the shaft was still very "whippy". thats the best way i can describe it, and i still had a few that were going hard left on me.
I told mark id really like to hit the MB and see how that felt in comparison. so he set up the club with a 6.0 Project X shaft in the MB and had me hit a few shots. The left miss was GONE. everything felt VERY solid off of that combination and we wanted to get some numbers to compare.
Mark sets up the launch monitor behind me and starts the program on the laptop and has me hit a few balls with the project X and MB set up to see what kind of numbers i was getting with the 6 iron. I hit 5 shots and the numbers were relatively shocking for me... looking for input from other members here on what they think..the run down from what i can remember are as follows:

swing speed: ranging from 97 to 104.7mph
ball speed ~128mph
launch angle: 22.5*
carry yardage: 177
total yardage: 188
spin rate: ~5250-5500

keep in mind these are pretty much averages in 25* weather with VERY cold golf balls that were sitting outside all day. These numbers just seem high to me. I dont want to base my purchase solely on numbers but everything is pointing towards the px 6.0 as being the "go to" shaft for me. im shocked at the swing speeds as well... ~105mph swing speed with a 6 iron?! if these speeds are true though and ive been playing with regular flex shafts in my irons for the past 5 years, how much have they been hurting my game?
anyways, thoughts on the numbers and suggestions from any other members would be appreciated! thanks in advance!

oh and PS... i will be going back sunday afternoon to continue with the fitting to try out more shaft options just to narrow this down 100% and make sure im getting the right set up for my game.

~Travis

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I grew up in the Clifton Park/Saratoga area and have played most of the courses up there. Was interesting to see someone on here mention Northway8 Golf. Unfortunately I have no advice about shafts. One of the experts here can probably provide info.

[518TitleistX]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I grew up in the Clifton Park/Saratoga area and have played most of the courses up there. Was interesting to see someone on here mention Northway8 Golf.

Unfortunately I have no advice about shafts. One of the experts here can probably provide info.

haha yeah ive been around the capital district top to bottom as far as courses go. i live in clifton park so northway 8 is the easiest place to go to get fitted locally, otherwise its golf galaxy which i dont trust as far as i can throw them or a significant drive to a fitter.. what courses did you frequent up here mostly?

[Bullitt5339]

My advice would be to take your current 6 iron to compare the numbers.  IMHO, you need a known baseline in order to make an accurate comparison and your current 6 iron would provide that for you and then you can do an apples to apples comparison.

[Harmonious]

Chances are you have indeed been playing shafts that were too whippy for your swing speed.  Project x 6.0 might be a good fit.

[518TitleistX]

ok so i went back to finalize my fitting today. we tried the project X 6.0 and 5.5, tried the DG s300 and x100's and also the KBS Tour S shafts. looking for a bit lower launch angle than I had the other night and actually see the ball flight in the day time. Albeit the conditions today in upstate NY were not optimal by any means. It was 26* outside with a 15-20mph headwind blowing directly into the "heated" tee booth. Range balls that were left in the booth for fitting were of course like hitting frozen rocks. Anyways, here we go onto some technical results.

Trial shaft #1: DG S300

The fitter loaded up the S300 in the 712MB just to gauge ball flight and see how my shots reacted now that we could actually see them in the daylight. just as the numbers the other night told us, the shaft had a relatively high spin rate (6100rpm) and was ballooning on me losing distance. launch angle was comming off around 21.5* to 22.5* consistently with 98-101mph swing speeds. The shot dispersion was all over the place as well. for some reason the shaft just did not feel right in my hands. On to the next shaft.

Trial shaft #2: DG X100

We got this shaft loaded into the MB's and from swing #1 it just was horrible for me. I felt like I was swinging a board. I lost distance, increased spin, but it did drop my launch angle down to about 20*. Swing speeds actually decreased as well with this shaft, probably due to the boardy feel and inability to load the shaft the way I like to. I hit maybe 5 to 10 balls with it and asked for something else. I was not a fan at all. On to the next...

Trial shaft #3: KBS Tour Stiff

Honestly, I hadnt really heard much about this shaft but was talked into giving it a shot by the fitter. I figured it couldn't hurt to try it out and see what kind of numbers we could get from it so in it went. First impression on the first swing was surprisingly good. it loaded the way i liked, had good feel, was lighter than both the X100 and the S300, and the results were MUCH improved as well.

I hit probably 25-30 balls with this shaft and couldn't find much wrong with it. The launch angle dropped once again for me down to 17.7* to 19.1* consistently. Ball speed went up near 130-133mph and swing speed also climbed up to the 103.5mph range. The shot dispersion tightened greatly with these as well. I was floored. I really REALLY liked this shaft and how it performed. Spin rate was slightly lower than the DG's as well down around 5700-5900. On to the Project X's...

Trial shaft #4: Project X 6.0

This was what i thought was going to be my PERFECT shaft after the other nights original trial fitting. Same weight as the KBS Tour, but a higher FCM rating. (6.5 vs 6.0 in the KBS)

Now, I don't know if it was because I was jumping around a little bit with swing weights and varying flexes (even though they were all in the stiff category) but this shaft did not feel as good today as it did a few nights prior. It still had a higher launch angle at 22* but spin was much lower at 5300rpm or so. It was shorter distance wise than the KBS as well. still had a tight dispersion rivaling the KBS but being shorter, less spin and higher ball flight had me second guessing everything. i asked if they had the PX 5.5 to try out and see if the stiffness was the reason for the lack in distance... sure enough they loaded up the Project X 5.5 and away we went...

Trail shaft #5: Project X 5.5

This shaft measures out at the same stiffness as the KBS but is 5 grams lighter in swing weight and has a different kick point without a doubt. The ball was flying just as far as the KBS with this shaft. BINGO we found our loss of distance. unfortunately, with the distance gain we lost our dispersion. this shaft was all over the range for me. left, right, wherever. I hit probably 25 balls or so with this setup and even though I could load the shaft and was getting good distance out of it, the launch angle was STILL upwards of 21*-22* with lower spin than the KBS at around 5500-5700rpms... we put all the number averages from each shaft side by side and the surprise winner was....(drumroll please) im sure you've already figured it out... The KBS Tour Stiff

The specs of the order are as follows:

Titleist 712MB 4i-PW +1/2"  3* up Golf Pride Decade midsize grips in black/white

Titleist Vokey SM4 58.09 wedge in Black nickel finish +1/2" 3* up with same grips but DG wedge shaft

also picked up a Cameron pivot tool for those pesky ball marks im going to be leaving all over the greens this year ;)

placed the order and was told to expect a ~3 week lead time on the clubs. got into some small talk with the fitter and asked if he'd mind if i took a few swings with my driver on the launch monitor to see where I was at with it just for my own personal bragging rights or whatever the case may be. He said sure and set it up and told me to swing away.

im playing a Titleist 910D2 set at A1. 46" Project X 7c3 shaft. Here's the pertinent numbers:

swing speed: 112.4-115.0mph  (10 balls hit)
ball speed 155-162mph
launch angle: 11.4-12.8
carry yardage:257-269 (into a 15mph headwind)
total yardage: 288-292 on average
spin rate: was seeing consistent 2510-2650rpm

I CANNOT WAIT FOR 2013 GOLF SEASON TO START!!!!

[518TitleistX]

ohh crap forgot to put up final stats with the KBS Tours... here they are:

swing speed: 103.5mph
ball speed ~133mph
launch angle: 18*
carry yardage: 184
total yardage: 193
spin rate: ~5700-5950

[Pat007]

Makes sense, your clubs weren't stiff enough. I do Titleist clubfittings at the Club I work at, and we're fitting more and more people with the KBS shafts. Don't forget, the shafts are the engine that drive the clubhead. You, sir, have just seen the joy of custom fitting! It amazes me that that some people still buy clubs off the rack.

[518TitleistX]

funny thing is is that the AP1's that ive been playing with were supposedly "fit" for me about 5 years ago from the same place and i never went through shaft testing this extensive. it was pick them out, measure wrist to floor length and hand length and finger length. hit off a lie board and order them up... they never even really offered a shaft selection for me to try. with the turn over at the proshop there and the emphasis now on being properly fit i believe theyve changed their methods a bit and are really working with people to get the 100% right set up and feel for their customers.

i am 100% pleased with the service i received this time around and cant wait for the irons to arrive. then ill have to have the rest of my clubs regripped because im OCD and need them all to match haha.

[Pat007]

Times are changing, and so are fitting methods. That's the one real advantage smaller shops and courses can offer is the fitting. It can take upto an hour and a half for a full fitting to be done right. A lot of times, smaller shops don't carry inventory, so they'll sell you anything. Larger retail outlets "fit" people for what they have in stock. I had a guy come in to get fit with his g20 irons he had fit for him at a local GolfTown. They just happened to have his 3* flat lie irons in stock! What a lucky guy! What he actually needed was 1* upright. Unfortunately, this is a common occurence. The goal of a good clubfit is to ensure a proper fit, yes, but also to try to gain a repeat customer. As you said, it was done right, and now you want to get your woods fit as well. Clubfitters want you to leave happy with your new clubs and want your repeat business. I don't get anything from you coming back to me in a week saying you can't hit the new clubs I fit you for. I have even told people that I wasn't recommending a new driver, because there's was best. The man was so impressed with my honesty, that he bought a New Scotty Cameron and balls and we had a customer for life. It's a complicated process, but I like to set some guidelines with my clients and explain ahead of time where we want the spin, launch angle, and all the other parameters to be based on their ball speed, so it doesn't look like I'm trying to make a club sale. I'm glad you enjoyed your clubfitting!

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

haha yeah ive been around the capital district top to bottom as far as courses go. i live in clifton park so northway 8 is the easiest place to go to get fitted locally, otherwise its golf galaxy which i dont trust as far as i can throw them or a significant drive to a fitter.. what courses did you frequent up here mostly ?

I think I've played almost every course in the area. As well as some quite a ways outside the capital district (Stratton, VT, the courses at Turning Stone Resort, Lake of Isles at Foxwoods, etc.). I still visit every August and play as much golf as possible in between horse track visits. Saratoga Lake GC, Saratoga National, Highland GC, Sagamore GC. Interestingly enough, when I was growing up in that area, I was a broke HS and College student and played whatever cheap courses I could find. Pheasant Hollow, Windy Hills (Greenwich), Battenkill CC, etc. Looking back on those courses now makes me realize what absurd cow pastures they were. I do remember playing a course in Albany many years ago. I think it was the Albany city Muni course, not Albany CC. It was the HILLY-EST golf course I have ever walked. And that includes Muirfield Village GC (Dublin, OH) which is nothing but steep hills. This course in Albany was nothing but STEEP hills the entire way. If you know which course I'm speaking of, remind me of the name. I may re-visit it someday.

[518TitleistX]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I think I've played almost every course in the area. As well as some quite a ways outside the capital district (Stratton, VT, the courses at Turning Stone Resort, Lake of Isles at Foxwoods, etc.). I still visit every August and play as much golf as possible in between horse track visits. Saratoga Lake GC, Saratoga National, Highland GC, Sagamore GC.

Interestingly enough, when I was growing up in that area, I was a broke HS and College student and played whatever cheap courses I could find. Pheasant Hollow, Windy Hills (Greenwich), Battenkill CC, etc. Looking back on those courses now makes me realize what absurd cow pastures they were.

I do remember playing a course in Albany many years ago. I think it was the Albany city Muni course, not Albany CC. It was the HILLY-EST golf course I have ever walked. And that includes Muirfield Village GC (Dublin, OH) which is nothing but steep hills. This course in Albany was nothing but STEEP hills the entire way. If you know which course I'm speaking of, remind me of the name. I may re-visit it someday.

i am not familiar with the hilly course you speak of. my normal tracks consist of:

eagle crest golf club

van patten golf course

airway meadows golf course

fairways of halfmoon

mechanicville country club

saratoga lake golf course

saratoga spa state park golf course

battenkill country club

kingswood country club

western turnpike golf course

stadium golf course

i have ventured out to plymouth mass to play pinehills golf course (the jack nicklaus course)

and also hit up bethpage black this past summer.

i can get on at atunyote or any of the other courses at turning stone for pennies on the dollar as my father works for the oneida nation, however have not yet tee'd it up there.

very much considering at least 1 round at saratoga national this year but finding it hard to swallow the $185 greens fee. i prefer the quieter out of the way courses anyways.

~Travis

[andyrule]

Travis, Nice to see someone that has played some of the same "lesser-known" courses. My father owns a house on Summit Lake in Argyle. When I visit I love playing Kingswood and Airway Meadows. I've also played Pole Valley and enjoyed the layout. Another track that is fun is Hiland Park. Every summer we do an "outing" with our buddies at Kingswood and always have a blast. If you venture to Western Massachusetts at all, Crumpin-Fox Club is a must play. Good luck with the sticks!

[inthecup]

What launch monitor were you using?

[518TitleistX]

What launch monitor were you using?

launch monitor was the zelocity purelaunch like the one seen in this listing here : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zelocity-PureLaunch-*********-Launch-Monitor-/261429769655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash;=item3cde6db5b7

I cant speak to the accuracy in spin or clubhead speed, however for real world yardages It seemed to be spot on when on the course... 6 iron being 185 etc...