Searching for ball

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The question I think I was answering was why does the clock continue to run while the player goes back to play the second shot with his provisional ball after starting his search.  The contention was that the clock should be on hold, but the rule doesn't allow that.  The clock keeps ticking.  The case he proposed would only apply if the landing area for his second shot with the provisional ball was still occupied by the group ahead, and the rule doesn't accommodate that possibility.

This is why in competition I wait to look until I have help. No reason to run up there and waste 3-4 minutes searching by myself. In a casual round I will go ahead and take a look while everyone else is hitting in the interest of time.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

This is why in competition I wait to look until I have help. No reason to run up there and waste 3-4 minutes searching by myself.

If a FC's ball is to one side of the fairway and your's is to the other, you may find a referee wanders across and has a word with you about wasting time.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Quote:

Originally Posted by NM Golf

This is why in competition I wait to look until I have help. No reason to run up there and waste 3-4 minutes searching by myself.

If a FC's ball is to one side of the fairway and your's is to the other, you may find a referee wanders across and has a word with you about wasting time.

Yep... this would be the issue with that idea.  You must proceed without undue delay.  I have never assumed that my fellow competitors would come to help me search unless there was a reason for them to be in the area where my ball went out of sight.

[Rulesman]

Play your ball then search. Use 10-2c/2 to keep the game moving.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Play your ball then search. Use 10-2c/2 to keep the game moving.

What is 10-2c/2? I found 10-2c, is that the same thing?

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

What is 10-2c/2? I found 10-2c, is that the same thing?

It's a Decision.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-10/#10-2c/2

[NM Golf]

If a FC's ball is to one side of the fairway and your's is to the other, you may find a referee wanders across and has a word with you about wasting time.

I am not wasting time, just not walking ahead of the group to look. Find the rule that says that is against the rules or causing undue delay. [quote name="Fourputt" url="/t/64783/searching-for-ball/30#post_810064"] Yep... this would be the issue with that idea.  You must proceed without undue delay.  I have never assumed that my fellow competitors would come to help me search unless there was a reason for them to be in the area where my ball went out of sight. [/quote] It's an unwritten rule in our association that we help our fellow competitors search for lost balls. I always help people look for their ball. I would consider it extremely poor sportsmanship to not look.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

I am not wasting time, just not walking ahead of the group to look. Find the rule that says that is against the rules or causing undue delay.

It's an unwritten rule in our association that we help our fellow competitors search for lost balls. I always help people look for their ball. I would consider it extremely poor sportsmanship to not look.

There is no problem in helping another player search for his ball. The potential problem arises when you look for his when you could be looking for and playing yours.

The onus is on the player to play without undue delay. There is no requirement to look for another player's ball.

If you were on the clock and walked up the right hand side of the fairway to look for a fellow competitor's ball, spent a few minutes searching, then walked 150 yards to the other side to your ball at about the same distance from the hole, you would almost certainly be penalised. You would have been expected to have gone directly to your ball and made your preparations for your stroke.

If your searching is not going to cause a significant delay in your playing your shot, that's ok. But otherwise you should play yours first, then help with the search

If two players have lost balls some distance from each other, then there should not be a 5 minute search for one and then another added five minute search for the other.

However, a player would be OK in not searching if it would be unsafe because another was going to play over the search area.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

If a FC's ball is to one side of the fairway and your's is to the other, you may find a referee wanders across and has a word with you about wasting time.

I am not wasting time, just not walking ahead of the group to look. Find the rule that says that is against the rules or causing undue delay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Yep... this would be the issue with that idea.  You must proceed without undue delay.  I have never assumed that my fellow competitors would come to help me search unless there was a reason for them to be in the area where my ball went out of sight.

It's an unwritten rule in our association that we help our fellow competitors search for lost balls. I always help people look for their ball. I would consider it extremely poor sportsmanship to not look.

I agree that most of the time, at least some of the group would help to find a misplaced ball, particularly if they have to wait for the target area to clear, or if they are already in the general area where another player's ball disappeared.  At the same time, if I'm with 3 guys who are walking, and they all hit to the right rough, but my ball is in the far left rough, I don't expect all of them to race up and hit their shots, then run over and help me find mine.  I also don't go over to their balls with them, even if one is in a position where it might be lost.  I go directly to my ball and begin to search.  If the time runs out, or I give up, before anyone comes to help, that is my fault for playing a poor shot.  I don't just expect that they will delay play to help me.   Such help is a courtesy, not a requirement or a "rule", written or otherwise.

I played in the same Men's Club for 22 years,  And in that time, most of the regular members became my friends.  We were always helpful and courteous in such situations when it was reasonable to be helpful, but not at the expense of delaying play and risking a penalty (and we had a strictly enforced pace of play policy on our tournament hard card).  We treated each other with respect and friendship, but it was a golf club, not a ladies aid society, and the main focus was playing golf by the rules.

[golferhhi]

Always play the rule you believe is correct. Your partner is not the final opinion, he has little benefit in giving you sound advice. A retired USGA official told me that while volunteering to Marshall a local golf tournament. I listened to our competitor, and he said never do that. I second guessed myself and ended up in the end being right all along.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by golferhhi

Always play the rule you believe is correct. Your partner is not the final opinion, he has little benefit in giving you sound advice. A retired USGA official told me that while volunteering to Marshall a local golf tournament. I listened to our competitor, and he said never do that. I second guessed myself and ended up in the end being right all along.

This can get you in trouble too, but at least you can't put the blame on anyone but yourself. I've known too many players who were absolutely certain that they were right as they proceeded to take an incorrect drop.

The best advice is to have a good working knowledge of the rules, then carry a rule book in your bag like I've done for 25 years.  It ends a lot of disputes.  In case of uncertainty in stroke play, you can still follow the procedure in Rule 3-3 and play a second ball, then let the committee make the ruling.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This can get you in trouble too, but at least you can't put the blame on anyone but yourself.   I've known too many players who were absolutely certain that they were right as they proceeded to take an incorrect drop.

The best advice is to have a good working knowledge of the rules, then carry a rule book in your bag like I've done for 25 years.  It ends a lot of disputes.  In case of uncertainty in stroke play, the procedure in Rule 3-3 you can still follow and play a second ball, then let the committee make the ruling.

I agree with your entire post.

When this guy was telling me the incorrect rule, I decided, screw this guy I am going to play a second ball and let the director sort it out at the end of the round.  Rather then argue with this dude who I believed was in the wrong.  I would have felt like a fool if I didn't play the 2nd ball and found out later that I was doing it correctly.

I also carry a rule book in my bag and have the most common (from what I have come across) rule misconceptions marked.  Taking an unplayable, lost ball, OB, and hazards.  I honestly have been surprised by how many people I have played with in casual or tournament rounds who think that a lost ball is treated like a hazard, "We can't find it so I'm just going to drop a ball and take a penalty". That's a negative Ghost Rider.  There not doing it for pace of play, they are doing it because they think only OB is rehit from original.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This can get you in trouble too, but at least you can't put the blame on anyone but yourself.   I've known too many players who were absolutely certain that they were right as they proceeded to take an incorrect drop.

The best advice is to have a good working knowledge of the rules, then carry a rule book in your bag like I've done for 25 years.  It ends a lot of disputes.  In case of uncertainty in stroke play, the procedure in Rule 3-3 you can still follow and play a second ball, then let the committee make the ruling.

I agree with your entire post.

When this guy was telling me the incorrect rule, I decided, screw this guy I am going to play a second ball and let the director sort it out at the end of the round.  Rather then argue with this dude who I believed was in the wrong.  I would have felt like a fool if I didn't play the 2nd ball and found out later that I was doing it correctly.

I also carry a rule book in my bag and have the most common (from what I have come across) rule misconceptions marked.  Taking an unplayable, lost ball, OB, and hazards.  I honestly have been surprised by how many people I have played with in casual or tournament rounds who think that a lost ball is treated like a hazard, "We can't find it so I'm just going to drop a ball and take a penalty". That's a negative Ghost Rider.  There not doing it for pace of play, they are doing it because they think only OB is rehit from original.

Off topic, but I've found that the most misunderstood relief procedure is determining the nearest point of relief for a drop from an obstruction or abnormal ground.  It seems like a simple concept but a great many otherwise knowledgeable players do it incorrectly.  Also too many think that it means they get to pick a nice spot, which is often not the case.   The phrase is "nearest" point of relief from the condition, not "best" point of relief.  The other point is that there is almost always one, and only one, nearest point of relief, and that is the only reference which can be used to begin your one clublength measurement.

[Rulesman]

n p r

n earest (not n icest) p oint of r elief

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This can get you in trouble too, but at least you can't put the blame on anyone but yourself.   I've known too many players who were absolutely certain that they were right as they proceeded to take an incorrect drop.

The best advice is to have a good working knowledge of the rules, then carry a rule book in your bag like I've done for 25 years.  It ends a lot of disputes.  In case of uncertainty in stroke play, you can still follow the procedure in Rule 3-3 and play a second ball, then let the committee make the ruling.

I no longer carry a rule book, but I have the USGA Rules app on my phone which I prefer because it is searchable AND it contains the decisions as well as the rules.  I think it cost something like $4.00.

Yup, here it is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.usga.golfrules.android.ui

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by turtleback

I no longer carry a rule book, but I have the USGA Rules app on my phone which I prefer because it is searchable AND it contains the decisions as well as the rules.  I think it cost something like $4.00.

Yup, here it is:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.usga.golfrules.android.ui

I got this message.

This app is incompatible with your Vodafone Samsung GT-S5830i.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Off topic, but I've found that the most misunderstood relief procedure is determining the nearest point of relief for a drop from an obstruction or abnormal ground.  It seems like a simple concept but a great many otherwise knowledgeable players do it incorrectly.  Also too many think that it means they get to pick a nice spot, which is often not the case.   The phrase is "nearest" point of relief from the condition, not "best" point of relief.  The other point is that there is almost always one, and only one, nearest point of relief, and that is the only reference which can be used to begin your one clublength measurement.

Yep, that is one I see too just not that often.  My buddies use it to their advantage when sprinklers near the putting green are in their way. They are totally following the rules but usually it's the side of the sprinkler that will produce the easiest putt.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

I got this message.

This app is incompatible with your Vodafone Samsung GT-S5830i.

Every search I did on that phone came up to a uk site - are you in the uk?  If so there is a (free) R&A; Rules app, but I don't think it includes the Decisions.

The R&A; app that includes the Decision costs about 10 pounds.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/July/Decisions-App.aspx