tuffluck's Tough Love Ball Striking Thread

[tuffluck]

Sorry, but the vast majority of penalties come from poor ball striking. Refusing to acknowledge where their opportunities lie is one reason so many people do not improve beyond a certain level of mediocrity....

Um, that is what I said. I shanked a couple of them. The other two were absolutely a result of poor aim in windy conditions. To say poor ball strike is at fault when there is a 30mph gust that day and I didn't aim far enough left is asinine.

[Golfingdad]

Um, that is what I said. I shanked a couple of them. The other two were absolutely a result of poor aim in windy conditions. To say poor ball strike is at fault when there is a 30mph gust that day and I didn't aim far enough left is asinine.

then, What makes you think that lessons couldn't help your ball striking?

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

Um, that is what I said. I shanked a couple of them. The other two were absolutely a result of poor aim in windy conditions. To say poor ball strike is at fault when there is a 30mph gust that day and I didn't aim far enough left is asinine.

A good ball striker can control the trajectory and spin so that they don't lose their ball in 30mph wind gusts.

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

then, What makes you think that lessons couldn't help your ball striking?

two shanks in one round of golf, and that's poor ball striking?  really??  by whose definition?  IMO you should be a lot better than a 10 hdcp if you never ever even once make bad contact with the ball in a round.  i think you're being a bit over zealous.

Quote:

A good ball striker can control the trajectory and spin so that they don't lose their ball in 30mph wind gusts.

disagreed.  deciding to hit the ball at a normal trajectory unknowing of the 30mph gust above the tree line (and losing a ball as a result) is certainly different than assuming there is potentially a gust and teeing the ball lower as to avoid the wind.  obviously in retrospect had i known the wind gust was there, i would have teed the ball lower and avoided the wind.  you're assuming i knew that conditions were harsh but that i had no choice but to strike the ball one way even if it was the wrong way in the given scenario.

you guys support lessons as if an instructor is to golf what a coffee maker is to coffee--they are the only way to do it right.  i consider myself a decent to good chipper and last round i had about 5 chip shots that i got really tense about and duffed.  i only duff them when i get nervous and forget to keep my head still.  i know what i'm doing, i even know how to fix it.  what would an instructor tell me to do to save me those 5 strokes?  "hey, you know what to do here...just don't get nervous before you do it."  well no shit, sherlock!  give me my money back!

and just to get back on track with the theme of this thread, of course lessons could help anyone and everyone, i never said they could not help at all.  for instance i can't hit a draw to save my life, i know an instructor could teach me that.  but seriously, going from a consistent low 90s player to a high 80s player doesn't necessarily have to be solved by an instructor.  if you have costly penalties and get nervous hitting tough shots like me, the cost benefit of an instructor isn't there since i know exactly what i'm doing wrong and how to fix it within reason.

and it doesn't stop there...maybe you are bad at club selection, maybe you don't judge wind/spin, etc.  there are certainly a multitude of things that can cause a bad round of golf that you don't have to have an instructor tell you how to adjust to or fix.  of course though if you are a terrible ball striker (and yet somehow manage to pull off low 90s), then yes, obviously someone needs to teach you how to swing a club properly.  but let's not get caught up in the idea that an instructor is the only way to shave off strokes.  brought my handicap down from about a 30 to an 18, when i get in the low teens without instruction i'll report back.

[stoverny]

I just fail to see how someone can have no issues with ball-striking, yet be consistently in the mid-90s. You'd have to skull every chip across the green or 4-putt every hole. I think it is going about things backwards to take putting/chipping lessons when in the mid-20s handicap. A player needs to have a reliable full swing before they can progress to the 80s and lower. I just don't think the ranks of the 20+ handicappers are filled with awesome ball strikers who just need a few putting lessons. I would argue that if you have been playing that long and still in the 90s, it is your approach to the swing itself that needs to change. As I mentioned there are lots of alternative single-axis type swings that help minimize the most troubling aspects of the swing and can help make the game less frustrating. Lessons will not help if the instructor rigidly sticks to a method that the player simply cannot master consistently. I know plenty of guys who have spent thousands on lessons over many years and they are barely better than when they started.

[Mordan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuffluck

two shanks in one round of golf, and that's poor ball striking?  really??  by whose definition?  IMO you should be a lot better than a 10 hdcp if you never ever even once make bad contact with the ball in a round.  i think you're being a bit over zealous.

I think we must have very different definitions of what constitutes a good ball striker.

Quote:

you guys support lessons as if an instructor is to golf what a coffee maker is to coffee--they are the only way to do it right.  i consider myself a decent to good chipper and last round i had about 5 chip shots that i got really tense about and duffed.  i only duff them when i get nervous and forget to keep my head still.  i know what i'm doing, i even know how to fix it.  what would an instructor tell me to do to save me those 5 strokes?  "hey, you know what to do here...just don't get nervous before you do it."  well no shit, sherlock!  give me my money back!

A good instructor would help refine your technique so that it stands up to nerves and pressure! The solution isn't to not get nervous, you're always going to get nervous over shots on the golf course, you need a technique that stands up to this.

5 duffs in one round is poor technique.

[David in FL]

I think we must have very different definitions of what constitutes a good ball striker.  A good instructor would help refine your technique so that it stands up to nerves and pressure! The solution isn't to not get nervous, you're always going to get nervous over shots on the golf course, you need a technique that stands up to this. 5 duffs in one round is poor technique.

As I said earlier, people like tuffluck who cannot see their own opportunities are those that remain stuck in mediocrity. As long as they're fine playing in the mid to high 90's that's fine. But if they genuinely want to improve, they're going to have to recognize that this is a game of skill, not luck.

[tuffluck]

I just fail to see how someone can have no issues with ball-striking, yet be consistently in the mid-90s. You'd have to skull every chip across the green or 4-putt every hole. I think it is going about things backwards to take putting/chipping lessons when in the mid-20s handicap. A player needs to have a reliable full swing before they can progress to the 80s and lower. I just don't think the ranks of the 20+ handicappers are filled with awesome ball strikers who just need a few putting lessons. I would argue that if you have been playing that long and still in the 90s, it is your approach to the swing itself that needs to change. As I mentioned there are lots of alternative single-axis type swings that help minimize the most troubling aspects of the swing and can help make the game less frustrating. Lessons will not help if the instructor rigidly sticks to a method that the player simply cannot master consistently. I know plenty of guys who have spent thousands on lessons over many years and they are barely better than when they started.

Maybe i just play tough courses, but my handicap is under 20 and i have only once broken 90.

[David in FL]

[quote name="tuffluck" url="/t/65322/cant-get-out-of-the-mid-90s/36#post_818222"]two shanks in one round of golf, and that's poor ball striking?  really?? [/Quote] Yep. But more importantly, the point is that when you barely break 100, it's a result of poor ball striking. Until you acknowledge the opportunities where they lie, you'll never improve, whether with the help of an instructor, or on your own. BTW, an instructor is NOT necessary to learn to play golf at a reasonable level. However, an instructor will speed the process up significantly

[tuffluck]

As I said earlier, people like tuffluck who cannot see their own opportunities are those that remain stuck in mediocrity. As long as they're fine playing in the mid to high 90's that's fine. But if they genuinely want to improve, they're going to have to recognize that this is a game of skill, not luck.

You'd have to define "don't see your own opportunities" first before I can understand what you're even talking about.

[David in FL]

You'd have to define "don't see your own opportunities" first before I can understand what you're even talking about.

Honest, self-evaluation of your strengths and weaknesses. Bad luck has nothing to do with why you, or anyone else, me included, doesn't improve. Nothing.

[tuffluck]

[quote name="tuffluck" url="/t/65322/cant-get-out-of-the-mid-90s/36#post_818222"]two shanks in one round of golf, and that's poor ball striking?  really??  [/Quote] Yep. But more importantly, the point is that when you barely break 100, it's a result of poor ball striking. Until you acknowledge the opportunities where they lie, you'll never improve, whether with the help of an instructor, or on your own.

The fact that I shoot in the low 90s with a teen handicap is significantly different than "barely breaking 100." also, since I have so much experience with this scoring, I think I can tell you honestly that poor ball striking is not my problem. Two shanks in a fairway may not have cost me a single stroke all day, but two in a tee shot is 4 penalty strokes which is never helpful to a good round.

[David in FL]

, I think I can tell you honestly that poor ball striking is not my problem.

Well, there you go. Your ball striking is great. You just do it too many times each round. :-D

[sofingaw]

tuffluck, you created this thread and asked for tips on how to improve your scores. You then shitcan/refute every response that has been offered.

Not saying every or any of these ideas are the key you need, but you get what you pay for, and also, you seem to be difficult to assist.

" i know what i'm doing, i even know how to fix it.  what would an instructor tell me to do to save me those 5 strokes?  "hey, you know what to do here...just don't get nervous before you do it."  well no shit, sherlock!  give me my money back! "

If you know everything, then just play better! DO IT.

If not, maybe give some of these suggestions some more thought, or hey, some effort.

[tuffluck]

tuffluck, you created this thread and asked for tips on how to improve your scores. You then shitcan/refute every response that has been offered.  Not saying every or any of these ideas are the key you need, but you get what you pay for, and also, you seem to be difficult to assist. " i know what i'm doing, i even know how to fix it.  what would an instructor tell me to do to save me those 5 strokes?  "hey, you know what to do here...just don't get nervous before you do it."  well no shit, sherlock!  give me my money back! " If you know everything, then just play better! DO IT. If not, maybe give some of these suggestions some more thought, or hey, some effort.

Nope, I didn't start the thread. In fact I just told the OP my opinion that instructions weren't necessary, then all you fellas basically called me a moron. I feel like I then had a legitimate reason to be defensive, especially since none of you have ever even seen me play, and instead just make assumptions.

[sofingaw]

Also, I don't have any ideas. I'm terrible at golf. Sorry I can't suggest anything! But good luck!

[sofingaw]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

Nope, I didn't start the thread. In fact I just told the OP my opinion that instructions weren't necessary, then all you fellas basically called me a moron.

You are correct. Apologies!

[14ledo81]

Sorry, but the vast majority of penalties come from poor ball striking. Refusing to acknowledge where their opportunities lie is one reason so many people do not improve beyond a certain level of mediocrity....

[quote name="David in FL" url="/t/65322/cant-get-out-of-the-mid-90s/36#post_818258"] Well, there you go. Your ball striking is great. You just do it too many times each round. :-D[/quote] That's how you get good at it David! Part of the allure of golf (to me) is that I have the ability (on very rare occasions) to hit a shot that is as good as a pro. I will never dunk a basketball, or thrwo a football 60 yards in the air, but now and then, from 87 yards out, I will drop one a few feet from the flag. Just because I can do this sometimes does not mean I have the ability of a pro.