"hahaha, for a minute there I thought you said pro v1s, haha"

[Jeepthrills]

It is unlikely that the shot that landed 60 yards right of the water was due to the physical properties of the LoCo. Granted a ProV1 may have landed 55 yards right of the water. It is also unlikely that the recovery shot to 10' would have been much worse had you put the same swing on the LoCo. However, golf is a mental game, or is that a game for "mentals?" Anyway, I digress. If you feel more comfortable over a certain ball, it can only help to eliminate one of the possible shot killers...doubt.

As far as feeling the difference in the two balls, thats an entirely individual thing. What's to say that a 36 can't feel the same things as a 6? What he should have said is that he would reccomend that for now you use a less expensive ball while you are improving. It hurts a lot less to watch an expensive ball drown than a cheap one.

One other factor that needs to be addressed is that a 24 for one person can be totally different than a 24 for someone else. By this I mean that we all throw away strokes differently. It's possible for someone to be good off the tee and bad arround the greens. Just like it's possible for someone to spray the ball and hit decent recovery shots. Some guys are great putters and terrible chippers. Other guys hit great wedge shots and miss 3 footers all day. The likelyhood is that as a 24 you lack consistency. This means that you, like me often times, are not always hitting the ball on the same part of the club face enough to get the full benefit of the ProV1. We can all screw up our rounds different ways and still shoot the same score.

I say play what you like and what fits your budget. You can rest assured that if I didn't get gently used ProV1's for $5 a dozen I would not be using them. Case in point. I am out right now and the guy I get them from doesn't have any either so I am using DT SoLo's and Nike Juice balls right now. Funny thing is, my last three rounds have been some of my best all year.

[iacas]

Imagine that.

No need to be a wiseass.

The worker forgot the most important thing in sales: "the customer is always right".

No, they aren't. Not by a long shot.

It does not sound like the OP asked if it was worth getting better balls or even asked for purchasing advice. He asked for a box of balls and the guy scoffed at him and acted like a jerk. Perhaps that is lost on some people.

Drop the 'tude, dude. It will not be tolerated here.

My comments have not been directed at that particular situation - none of us were there and we have only one "side" to the story - but in terms of people wasting money and salespeople trying to save some people money.

[Jeepthrills]

No, they aren't. Not by a long shot.

So true. In fact, the customer is rarely right. You just have to make them think they are.

[shortgame85]

I have been in the retail business for 25 years. In fact, I grew up in it; my family has had the same business for 75 years. As a retailer, I am used to dealing with all kinds of customers in every situation imaginable. As a consumer, I have bought products of many kinds all over the world. Frankly, I am appalled at the lack of training most salepeople, today, suffer. I was in a Joseph Banks clothing store, picking up a suit for a friend. The salespeople showed no interest in me; even worse, they acted as if going to get the suit was a big imposition. I could have become one of their best customers but, I can assure you, as a result of the treatment I experienced, I wouldn't set foot in that store again for anything. Likewise, I went to an Edwin Watts store in Memphis to buy a Momentus Power Hitter. When the salesperson provided me with product for which I came, he didn't ask, "Is there anything else I can get for you?" Instead he just disappeared. I had wanted to talk to him about a new driver. Also, the clerk at the check out counter appeared totally disinterested. I paid for my purchase and left. With any effort on the part of a good or even interested salesperson, I could have parted with an additional $300 or $400, and that store would have recorded a higher sales figure for the day. A few weeks later, I went to the Double Eagle Golf store in Cordova, Tn., for the purpose of buying new grips for my clubs. The sales person with whom I talked seemed every bit as distracted as the Edwin Watts sales person. He seemed to have cared less if I bought one grip or fourteen or anything. He offered information about grips only if it were extracted from him painfully, bit by bit. After I chose the grips I wanted, I told him I would like to look around ( after all, the amount of inventory there was terrific and I would have been delighted to consider a new driver there since I had not purchased one at the Edwin Watts ). Did he ask if there was anything in particuler I was looking for? He said nothing, not even a thank you for the business I did favor him with. As a retailer who works damn hard for my money, I felt nothing but disgust for these companies who train their salespeople so poorly. I am appalled at the apathy exhibited by these, mostly, young male, salesmen. As for the original poster's comments, describing the manner in which the pro shop clerk talked to him, I would fire, in a New York second, any employee of mine who responded in such a manner to a request to buy anything. The pro shop clerk might have said, " Sir, you have selected a very fine golf ball. I know you will enjoy these ProV1s. However, knowing your handicap, may I suggest that you consider these Dunlops? They are quite a bit less expensive than the ProV1s and it is often said that higher handicap players or players with lower swing speeds do just as well, or sometimes even better, with a lower compression ball. Nothing against your selection of ProV1s, they're great, but I just wanted you to be aware of the prevailing thinking about these balls so that you can make the most informed choice." Sorry to go off on such a rant about this, but the idea of anybody treating anyone who is about to part with hard earned money in a less than helpful and very respectful manner should be force fed 10 pounds of raw haggis. After all, we all are consumers and, in the case of us golfers, buying something golf related should be fun, not frustrating or worse. The best retailers train and demand appropriate behavior from their salespeople. I know that when someone buys something from my store, I want them to feel like they are a geniuses for having chosen my shop in which to spend their time and money. The last thing I want them to feel is like a fool for having purchased the wrong thing or been made to feel a fool for anything they may have said or chosen. My point is that the Pro shop clerk should have allowed that fellow to have bought whatever he wished, done his best to give the fellow the benefit of his knowledge, then made this fellow feel good regardless of what he bought. Really, good salesmanship is nothing more than being attentive and considerate, attributes I find sorely lacking in many retail establishments, especially golf shops.

[P3R3]

Dude you are a 24, you need not waste money losing $4 golf balls! I play to a 13 and I dont hit pro v1's all the time for this reason. If you REALLY want a pro v then buy them used, at least it is economical!

[nstphillips]

Dude you are a 24, you need not waste money losing $4 golf balls! I play to a 13 and I dont hit pro v1's all the time for this reason. If you REALLY want a pro v then buy them used, at least it is economical!

Yeah I totally agree, my point however, was not that I desperately wanted to have pro-v1s, it was that I asked to buy them and was denied! Shouldn't I be able to buy what I want with my money?

The question I was trying to raise is that would it matter if someone of my ability ie. "duffer" hits pro v's, is the ball going to do unusual things that hinder my progress because it is being hit inconsistently? Also would a 24 handicapper like myself be able to realistically tell the difference between the balls? My experience with the locos which I bought for £8 for 24, were that they seemed to feel very hard off of the face and made a "snap" like sound when hit, the pro v was quiet and smooth, and I hardly noticed I had hit it, which in my opinion makes it a lot easier to concentrate on hitting through the ball.

[williethekid]

practice or x-out V1's, $30 a dozen @ dicks or golfsmith.

[iacas]

The question I was trying to raise is that would it matter if someone of my ability ie. "duffer" hits pro v's, is the ball going to do unusual things that hinder my progress because it is being hit inconsistently?

Balls don't do "unusual" things.

However, the point others are trying to get across is that you're wasting your money.

Also would a 24 handicapper like myself be able to realistically tell the difference between the balls?

There's a difference between feeling the difference between balls and

taking advantage of the difference between balls. You can do the former, but likely not the latter. Both of those questions have been answered. Please re-read the thread and all the comments you've received. Mentally, I believe you're incredibly weak if the kind of ball sitting before you affects your swing. How will you ever practice at the range?

[Mr.Buckethead]

Yeah I totally agree, my point however, was not that I desperately wanted to have pro-v1s, it was that I asked to buy them and was denied! Shouldn't I be able to buy what I want with my money?

Hitting a ProV1 as a "duffer" is not going to make much difference at all. However, if you can afford to play with them, go for it. I have a feeling that Bill Gates, George W. Bush or any other wealthy "duffer" is not playing with Dunlop Loco's.

[FIJIGolf23]

Gah I can't stand disrespectful people like that. Whether it is Tiger Woods or the weekend duffer doesn't matter. We all play this game for the enjoyment. Some people may not have the most ability and/or able to practice as much as others.

With that being said, I would have told him to eat one. You should play the golf equipment that you want to play. You are the only one that can and should decide what works for you.

[bornfishy]

No need to be a wiseass.

The customer

is always right. Mr. Buckethead was, plainly, referring to the cliche which, to this day, remains true. Whether or not the customer is in the right, he is right. And please, just say "attitude". And another thing; a good salesman doesn't save anybody money. A good person does. OP, if you can afford the best balls, go for it. I've always taken the attitude that I may as well go into a new sport spending as much as I can afford; if that's Pro V1's, then so be it. andy.

[iacas]

The customer

No, they're not. I don't care what permutation you come up with, they're not.

The customer is oftentimes (and I'm not referring to this situation) a big freakin' idiot. Or they don't know of a better solution. Or any number of other things. The customer is free to leave or free to buy things elsewhere, but they most certainly are not always right. Only selfish, snobby idiots who think they know everything believe that. I don't go into stores thinking I'm right. If I know what I want, I get it. If I don't know, I ask. Thinking you're always right is a great way to get screwed with incredible frequency.

And another thing; a good salesman doesn't save anybody money. A good

A good salesman is a good person, thus, a good salesman tries to save someone money.

I went in one time to buy something I thought I needed for one of my kayaks. It cost $150. Turns out all I needed was a few $5 parts and a little know-how. The guy who told me that was not only a good salesman (earning my repeat visits and business for sure), but a good person.

[bornfishy]

No, they're not. I don't care what permutation you come up with, they're not.

Have you ever worked in sales? Successfully...?

Anyway; yeah, I've had that experience before. I'm certainly no "snobby idiot", having worked in sales prior to my current job. As I've already mentioned, Mr. Buckethead was referring to the age old cliche; he was not, as you seem to believe, stating that the customer is indeed always right. It has absolutely nothing to do with how many permutations I can come up with. I hope you can discern the difference, now. Please don't resort to stating opinion as fact; "A good salesman is a good person". Find me a single fact to prove that - a quantifiable, bona-fide fact, and I'll eat my shorts with salt and pepper. Anyway; regarding salesmen - yeah, I can see you have a point. Repeat business is the key. However, it's entirely possible to build repeat business while gaining yourself, or your company, money. andy.

[iacas]

Have you ever worked in sales? Successfully...?

Quite successfully, yes.

As I've already mentioned, Mr. Buckethead was referring to the age old cliche; he was not, as you seem to believe, stating that the customer is indeed always right.

I know it's an age-old cliche. That doesn't make it right. My goodness, c'mon, the point of this forum isn't to debate semantics or cliches. So let me bring it back to what I was trying to get at:

I'm simply saying that if someone comes in asking for a $50/dozen ball (or $45 or whatever you pay for Pro V1s in your area) and they're worse than a bogey golfer, the salesman is well within his right to suggest he might want something else which will save him money. Obviously the salesman shouldn't have an attitude when he does it, nothing like that - but "the customer is always right" doesn't cut it. That's all I'm saying. I'm also saying to the OP he's probably wasting his money, and if he feels he needs to spend an extra $25/dozen balls because he "feels" he plays better, then he has a mental hurdle to get over. As I've said, range balls aren't usually Pro V1s, so I wonder how the guy will ever practice. So, I'm calling for a moratorium on debate over "the customer is always right." They ain't always, we all know it, and it's a waste of my time and yours to debate the specifics.

[nstphillips]

Hitting a ProV1 as a "duffer" is not going to make much difference at all. However, if you can afford to play with them, go for it. I have a feeling that Bill Gates, George W. Bush or any other wealthy "duffer" is not playing with Dunlop Loco's.

O.k, cheers man. I am not a wealthy duffer, just a duffer that hasn't learnt what was good for him yet.

I think I will meet half way and take Hurley 9192' advice and get some NXT's.

[bornfishy]

Quite successfully, yes.

It wasn't a debate, Iacas. I agree they're not always right. I've stated that the OP was

not saying that; he just stated the cliche, which unfortunately customer service folks still need to abide by, despite their customers lacking the knowledge of the brands return policy, or beyond date exchange caveats! And the point of this forum is not to discuss whether or not it's right (it's not!) Anyway, the rest of your point stands. The salesman shouldn't have had an attitude about it. Re the driving range practice; I'm certainly used to using the crappest balls possible. I realise they'll go nowhere, and are totally uncharacteristic of my actual (lack of) ability. But it helps ingrain the swing, for a new player. Pro V1's likely wouldn't be a problem in that situation. There's no pressure anyway. But, and this applies to all, no personal comments please. "Mentally weak" is just too far. andy.

[iacas]

This thread has run its course.