My Swing (JonMA1)

[JonMA1]

@billchao - Yes, I am working on different things.

Is my practice effective? I'm a 22.8 so no, my practice isn't effective as far as improving. By that definition of effective, it wasn't effective when I focused on a single priority and it isn't effective when I practice on more than one.

It's effective in that if I don't work on these things, the swing becomes worse very quickly.

[billchao]

7 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

@billchao - Yes, I am working on different things.

Is my practice effective? I'm a 22.8 so no, my practice isn't effective as far as improving. By that definition of effective, it wasn't effective when I focused on a single priority and it isn't effective when I practice on more than one.

It's effective in that if I don't work on these things, the swing becomes worse very quickly.

That's not really what I meant by effective practice. What I wanted to know is if you are practicing slow, specific movements to improve your motion and how are you doing it.

Going out and "working on your AoA" with your driver while making full swings isn't actually effective practice and won't actually change your motion, you're just telling yourself you're working on something when you're really just hitting balls. It's not really practicing.

That's why I asked, because you seem frustrated that you spend a lot of time practicing and not getting better, but maybe it's how you practice that's the problem?

[JonMA1]

39 minutes ago, billchao said:

What I wanted to know is if you are practicing slow, specific movements to improve your motion and how are you doing it.

To some extent, yes. It could be better, of course.

Erik gave me the advice of swinging at 30% until I became unconsciously competent at it. The piece I thought would be my priority was key #4. So I worked very slowly at that for about a month, even taking it out to the course. It helped get me to the point where things drastically improved and I increased my speed a little.... say 50 - 60% effort and swung that way for about a month. I'm now at about 80% effort but it takes several slower swings to get there. 

The piece is repeatable but not automatic, so I jumped the gun.

42 minutes ago, billchao said:

Going out and "working on your AoA" with your driver while making full swings isn't actually effective practice and won't actually change your motion, you're just telling yourself you're working on something when you're really just hitting balls. It's not really practicing.

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%. I rarely go out and hit balls for the sake of hitting balls. There is almost always something I'm focused on. How is applying at 80% what I've developed at 50% not beneficial?

Not trying to be argumentative, but it has always made sense to devote some practice into engraining a move into a full swing. But you and others may be more right about this than I realize at this point. 

Please don't take any of this as anything less than me trying to figure things out. I don't have the answers. The fact that you and others are so willing to help folks like me is always appreciated.

44 minutes ago, billchao said:

That's why I asked, because you seem frustrated that you spend a lot of time practicing and not getting better, but maybe it's how you practice that's the problem?

No doubt my practices could be more structured. That would help at some level so I will continue to work on it this winter. Of course I want to get a little better, but we all have a ceiling on our potential. Mine happens to be low. The best practice habits in the world can only help so much.

Frustration is a character flaw. I'm working harder on improving this area of my game than I am my swing or scores.

Thank you Bill.

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Of course I want to get a little better, but we all have a ceiling on our potential. Mine happens to be low. The best practice habits in the world can only help so much.

I find this statement somewhat questionable. It's doubtful that you've reached your full potential. Maybe with the way you are currently swinging, but not necessarily with proper practice and training?

[JonMA1]

57 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I find this statement somewhat questionable. It's doubtful that you've reached your full potential. Maybe with the way you are currently swinging, but not necessarily with proper practice and training?

I agree with what you and Bill are saying. There is room for improvement with my practice habits, and improved practice would yield better results in the way of an improved swing. No question. 

I just don't think under any circumstances I have the ability to get to a very high level of golf. Certainly not at the level of you and Bill.

I enjoy practicing. I try to use at least some of the advice from TST and LSW. But two things seem apparent...

1. Whatever gains I make towards improving a key, some ground will be lost if I don't continue to work on it. I wish I could learn something and have it stick, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
2. At some point, I have to apply what I'm working on towards a full swing.

[Lihu]

Well, just keep practicing I guess, you might suddenly have a Golf epiphany.

[billchao]

@JonMA1, I'm sorry this will be brief, but I wanted to make a lengthy reply but got busy with stuff (I might still do it another time), but ultimately I think you're holding yourself back with that defeatist attitude. Your ceiling is probably not as low as you think it is, but your attitude makes it hard to realize it. You are your own worst enemy.

Maybe you don't have high end athletic ability, that doesn't mean you can't get better at this game. I once played a round with someone who shot four or five over with a 200 yard pull-slice as his stock drive. He just made it work and managed his misses well.

And even if you don't ever get to that point (I'm still trying to break 80 myself), just go out and enjoy the game. It's a hard game, you don't need to beat yourself up about it. Have fun out there.

[JonMA1]

Thanks @billchao. There's a lot of truth to your entire post, but the last paragraph sums up what we're all after.

Edited November 27, 2017 by JonMA1

[billchao]

13 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

Thanks @billchao. There's a lot of truth to your entire post, but the last paragraph sums up what we're all after.

Trust me, I've been there. I realized one day that I suck and I'm spending my free time and money to play this game so why beat myself over it? This game is supposed to be something we play for recreation, for entertainment, for fun. It made no sense to spend money and time doing something that aggravated me and I was too hooked to quit, so the answer became obvious to me: just find ways to enjoy it for what it is.

Do I still get frustrated when I play poorly or hit bad shots? Sure, but I try to keep the big picture in mind. I signed up to play golf and it's not guaranteed to be good, so I find little things to feel good about. 

[JonMA1]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

Trust me, I've been there. I realized one day that I suck and I'm spending my free time and money to play this game so why beat myself over it? This game is supposed to be something we play for recreation, for entertainment, for fun. It made no sense to spend money and time doing something that aggravated me and I was too hooked to quit, so the answer became obvious to me: just find ways to enjoy it for what it is.

Do I still get frustrated when I play poorly or hit bad shots? Sure, but I try to keep the big picture in mind. I signed up to play golf and it's not guaranteed to be good, so I find little things to feel good about. 

You have a really good grasp on the stuff that Dave, Erik and Mike are kind enough to share with us and it shows in your swing and in your practice videos. If I'm not mistaken, you don't get a chance to play as often as you'd like due to your work schedule. Yet, you're still able to carry a 14 index. I've played alongside those who are at your level and from my perspective, it's good golf. 

I know everyone is modest about their game, but at some point you have to feel pretty good about your ability to hit as many pars as you do, or keep the blow up holes to a minimum, or do whatever else is needed to maintain that index.

The game is hard for most of us and no matter how well we play, we're always comparing ourselves with the next level. That's probably true with the guys on tour who are yet to win. For that matter, the guys who have won probably get frustrated because they aren't winning more, and so on.

This past Friday I shot a 103 - a poor round by almost anyone's definition - and somehow was able to really enjoy it. It was likely the last round of the year, I was spending time with my son, was keeping the ball in play off the tee, hitting my irons crisp, and even making a couple long putts. Obviously, there was a lot of crap in between those positives, but it just didn't matter. THAT'S what I'm after... for the negatives not to matter beyond thinking, hmmm, I'll have to figure out what I'm doing wrong there and try to correct it.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

You have a really good grasp on the stuff that Dave, Erik and Mike are kind enough to share with us and it shows in your swing and in your practice videos. If I'm not mistaken, you don't get a chance to play as often as you'd like due to your work schedule. Yet, you're still able to carry a 14 index. I've played alongside those who are at your level and from my perspective, it's good golf. 

I know everyone is modest about their game, but at some point you have to feel pretty good about your ability to hit as many pars as you do, or keep the blow up holes to a minimum, or do whatever else is needed to maintain that index.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. Yes I am a 14 now, but two years ago I was a 17, and the year before that, a 19 or more for seemingly forever. I do feel good about where I'm at because I know the work it took to get where I am, even though I'd like to (and probably could) be lower than I am now.

It's something I think you're capable of. I used to be stuck at the same level forever. I needed some good instruction to really kick start my progression. I had to learn that I wasn't practicing properly and that's why I wasn't improving. Even after getting good instruction, the process took a while to sink in. I still spent a lot of time on tangents. Still worry today that I'm capable of it TBH. 

I think you're capable of improving. I just think you don't quite know how, yet. It's not what you believe to be a low ceiling. You write a lot of things that demonstrate you understand how to play and score well, all you need is to get the physical side down.

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

This past Friday I shot a 103 - a poor round by almost anyone's definition - and somehow was able to really enjoy it. It was likely the last round of the year, I was spending time with my son, was keeping the ball in play off the tee, hitting my irons crisp, and even making a couple long putts. Obviously, there was a lot of crap in between those positives, but it just didn't matter. THAT'S what I'm after... for the negatives not to matter beyond thinking, hmmm, I'll have to figure out what I'm doing wrong there and try to correct it.

See that's what I mean. You need to find a way to enjoy your regular rounds and stop worrying about the italicized part.

[JonMA1]

Sun 11/26: mid iron - club face control. 15 mins

Mon 11/27: 4i, 4h - low point and club face 20mins. Putting - varying distances and angles 20mins.

Tues 11/28: 4i - club face control,  Driver - low point

Wed 11/29: 8i - club face control. Was having some issues. Ok contact other than a couple thin shots, but I just couldn't control the starting line very well.

Thurs 11/30: 8i - Lousy practice 20mins. Wanted to work on club face control but couldn’t make anything close to good contact. Putting: I was having trouble hitting 50% of my 10’ putts at first but eventually started to think "roll" instead of "hit". Varied distances and positions from off the putting strip. Ended up hitting a high percentage from different spots.

Fri 12/1: 8i - shorter backswing and a slower turn produced much more control… better contact and club face control with minimal loss of yardage. 4i and 5w: club face control. Slowed everything down to about 75% of my normal speed and shortened the backswing. Good contact and starting line with the 4i. 5w was a bit tougher. Got good launch angle from off the turf but my timing was off. Was pulling some and slicing others. Overall, not completely out of control, but there would have been a couple penalties.

Out of town on Saturday so no practice. Hoping to get on the course Sunday. If so, will probably play the short tees.

[JonMA1]

Practice has shifted almost exclusively to indoors. Putting in the house, full swing in the garage.

On the full swing, I'm currently working on something that might help improve on a couple of keys. Since making progress on key #2 this year, I've noticed on video late in the year that I'd reverted back to some bad habits. Instead of getting all freaked out about it and pouring all my focus into "fixing" it, I just put a bit of effort into a couple swing thoughts and accepted what that brought.

This week while working on keys 4 and 5 however, I might have stumbled upon something that might help key #2...hopefully a trigger.

Here's my theory (and I could be completely full of crap)... I can swing in-to-out all day long, but unless I'm moving forward, the club reaches the apex (probably not the right word) of the circle if viewed from above too soon at the bottom. By the time it reaches impact, the club head path has gone in-to-out and is starting to come back in. I compensate this by attempting to square the club head. If successful, the resulting fade isn't that damaging - as long as the starting line is good. Problems occur when the starting line isn't good, or when I get more or less of a shift forward- resulting in either pull hooks and push slices. As I said, it's just a theory.

Anyway, what I've been working on this week is trying to get the in-to-out to continue after impact. But instead of "reaching"  with my arms/hands to accomplish this, my body has to be in the right position earlier by way of a weight shift. 

So far, this has become a trigger for getting my weight forward without having to think about it. Video seems to back up what I'm feeling and contact feels very, very solid.

The trouble with all of this - even if I were completely correct (probably not the case) - is that these types of things never seem to take hold. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by JonMA1

[JonMA1]

My wife was kind enough to get me a small dry erase with the thought that I should use it when practicing with my putting strip. This is what I've been working on for the last few days:

I'll have to look through LSW as I think there's a section on specific putting drills or go online to see if there are drills that apply to indoor practices. If nothing else, this keeps my mind into golf. 

---

As far as the full swing, I'm continuing to work on keys #2 and #4 out in the garage - with some occasional swings outside.

One other gift my wife bought me was a swing aid called the "Swing Right Now". it's kind of a sawed-off version of the orange whip. Because it's much shorter, taking full swings indoors is pretty safe.

While a swing aid wouldn't have been something I'd have bought myself, I find myself swinging it several times a day. When used as intended, it's supposed to help develop tempo and timing. In any event, I don't think it will do any damage to my swing 

[JonMA1]

It's been a long time since i've posted any video. I'll try to be careful not to delete this one from my YouTube channel.

There are a lot of things wrong with my swing that I've yet to address.  Too much movement at address, too much head movement, opening my hips too early...etc. But I think the most damaging might be coming out of posture as I always seem to do, causing a fail of key#1. No one in the PGA gets taller as they start the downswing. There are just too many things to worry about right now. I have to limit what I'm focusing on. 

These two views are not from the same swing, but are from the same practice session. There are a few things I've been working on that I'm happy with - even if I can't repeat them. Weight shift, swing path, club face control.

 

[Lihu]

45 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

It's been a long time since i've posted any video. I'll try to be careful not to delete this one from my YouTube channel.

There are a lot of things wrong with my swing that I've yet to address.  Too much movement at address, too much head movement, opening my hips too early...etc. But I think the most damaging might be coming out of posture as I always seem to do, causing a fail of key#1. No one in the PGA gets taller as they start the downswing. There are just too many things to worry about right now. I have to limit what I'm focusing on. 

These two views are not from the same swing, but are from the same practice session. There are a few things I've been working on that I'm happy with - even if I can't repeat them. Weight shift, swing path, club face control.

 

Fantastic setup and I like the natural wood!

You have almost exactly the same swing as one of my golfing buddies did last year. He spent the last year getting rid of the head bobbing move, and said that once he eliminated that motion and converted his movement to rotation he gained a lot of power in his swing. If you work on that alone, I’d guess you would have more power by spring?

[iacas]

Aside from this early and extremely rapid move, which I'd seek to quiet down quite a bit, it's looking pretty good there.

No need for your hips and knees to work like that so quickly and immediately.

[JonMA1]

Thank you @iacas and @Lihu.