My Swing (JonMA1)

[JonMA1]

It's been several months since I've recorded any swings. I was at the range today and took some FO with a 4 iron and DTL with my driver. I was really glad I did because bad habits are creeping back in. 

Irons -

Negatives: I'm getting hip sway I wasn't getting in May (last time I recorded). This is really hurting my swing, but I also think it can be fixed. It will probably always be one of those maintenance things I'll have to deal with. Because of the hip sway, I'm not getting a good shoulder turn and not getting as much weight forward. The weight shift is still better than it used to be, but still poor. Hardly any hip movement forward.

Positives: Key #3 looked good and is likely why I get decent contact on many of my shots.

Driver -

Negatives: Excessive head movement. Up and back (from DTL) on the backswing. A bit more stable from the top down.

Positives: Almost nothing worth mentioning. The camera alignment wasn't very good, but from what I could see my takeaway wasn't bad and neither was the shaft angle at the top down. 

Overall, the swing looked bad and reflects the inconsistencies I'm seeing on the course. I didn't realize I was still pausing so much... still really choppy. Driver swing is a train wreck and I'm not sure I can fix it. I suspect the excessive head movement is contributing to the two way misses. Experienced more of those on the range today. 

I'm not getting crazy about this improvement stuff any longer - at least that's my goal. I'll continue to work on the irons while trying to remain a bit more long-term oriented. Work on the driver will have to wait - other than when it gets used on the course.

 

[JonMA1]

Made a slight adjustment, took some more video tonight and the hip sway is gone. One less thing to worry about. 

The weight isn't staying back like it was last year, but I'm still not getting a lot of weight forward. My hips move the slightest bit forward and then I just rotate. My hands are probably more in front of the ball at impact than I remember them ever being, so I guess that's a good thing.

Still not happy with inconsistent contact, but I'm trying not to freak out about it. So far, so good.

The plan is for slow, incremental changes to my current iron swing while trying to enjoy the rest of the season. Honestly, in another 5 years I'll likely be typing the exact same things. 

Not sure what to do with my driver and woods. I'll probably just use them sparingly when trying to score well, and using them more for the occasional practice round.

[Jack Watson]

I think you would benefit from reading either swinging into golf or swing the clubhead by Ernest Jones.

[JonMA1]

On 8/13/2017 at 1:14 PM, Jack Watson said:

I think you would benefit from reading either swinging into golf or swing the clubhead by Ernest Jones.

Thanks @Jack Watson. I know your intentions are legitimate and I appreciate that you want to help others. There are a lot of methods of improvement out there and while most work for some, few work for all.

I will almost always try what others suggest and maybe I'll pick up a copy of the books. But I have a different philosophy than Ernest Jones. I do believe that the correct movement of different parts of the body contribute a great deal to the correct movement of the club.

That's not to say that I'm trying to get a tour pro's swing out of this old body, but I'd like to get to at least a level of 2 out of 5 (on a scale of 0-5)  in accomplishing each of the 5 keys. I don't see how swinging the club head alone can possibly do that. Please understand that I can't afford to go down another rabbit hole right now.

I've told you in other threads that I've found some of Jim Flick's teachings to be beneficial, but  at a very basic level. His suggestion of "feeling the club head" helps me swing with what I think might be a better plane - especially with the longer clubs. 

What feeling the club head won't do is prevent me from sliding my hips away from the target, and moving my head left to right, then right to left, up and down, and forward to backwards - all in the same swing. It won't improve my jerky takeaway,  or wimpy shoulder turn, or  arms stopping at parallel to the ground, and then going too far behind me to compensate for the lack of a proper turn. Nor will it stop me from doing a number of things that frankly just make my swing look ridiculous.

So I'd rather develop a feel for what it's like to have a centered hip turn, for my feet, knees, hips, torso, shoulders and arms to bring my hands and club in a better position at the top, and then the feel of coming down properly from that position that allows for a better angle of attack, a better swing path and enough weight forward so that my hands can be in front of the ball with the correct wrist and hand movement to get better club head speed. I'd like to know what it feels like to do this in a fluid motion that I repeat exactly the same way every swing without thinking.

If I could develop these feels first, then sure, I'd love to develop the feel of pulling the club head through the ball instead of just whacking at it.

Will all this happen? Probably not. But I'd like to try, even if I take it takes forever.

I've spent 6 years polishing this turd of a swing I play golf with. Meaning, every spring I give up on developing some very fundamental mechanics and instead, fall back to thinking I can just make do with a swing that "comes natural" to me... AKA swinging the club head. It hasn't worked yet for me.

[Jack Watson]

@JonMA1

Yeah,  thanks for the response.  I am not advocating you change what you are doing.

Sometimes reading something simple like Jones can be enjoyable if you are a reader.  I support 5sk.  I think you are working with sound concepts.  I just know it was frustrating for me when I was changing and reading stuff like that kinda calms me or tends to reset my mind a bit on things so I tend to espouse it.    In no way was I trying to suggest you change approach.  It's just I know the game got to me too much a few years ago and my pro warned me about that.  

Also,  why not put up some video?  I was very leery of putting up video but it's been positive for me.   No one is going to put it on the evening news with the anchor saying " Worlds ugliest swing spotted on you tube"  In truth people don't care.  A pro once told me everyone thinks their swing is ugly.  

 I promise not to offer advice to you on mechanics since it's clear you are working with good concepts.  I am just curious what it looks like.  Even a pitch or something.  

 

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

@JonMA1

Yeah,  thanks for the response.  I am not advocating you change what you are doing.

Sometimes reading something simple like Jones can be enjoyable if you are a reader.  I support 5sk.  I think you are working with sound concepts.  I just know it was frustrating for me when I was changing and reading stuff like that kinda calms me or tends to reset my mind a bit on things so I tend to espouse it.    In no way was I trying to suggest you change approach.  It's just I know the game got to me too much a few years ago and my pro warned me about that.  

Also,  why not put up some video?  I was very leery of putting up video but it's been positive for me.   No one is going to put it on the evening news with the anchor saying " Worlds ugliest swing spotted on you tube"  In truth people don't care.  A pro once told me everyone thinks their swing is ugly.  

 I promise not to offer advice to you on mechanics since it's clear you are working with good concepts.  I am just curious what it looks like.  Even a pitch or something.  

 

I do like to read for those reasons as well. In addition to LSW, I have Hogan's Five Lessons and I've read most of Bob Rotella's Golf is Not a Game of Perfect. I used to enjoy some of the Jack Nicklaus' articles where he would look back at what he used to think about the swing and compare those to what he currently thinks. I'm currently trying to get through Arnie. I think his life is a fascinating story but the book is not an easy read. 

As for the videos, I tend to clean out my YouTube channel from time to time for no particular reason other than a little OCD. It's not entirely due to embarrassment (if that were the case I'd never post my scores or handicap). What I didn't realize is that when I clean out those videos, it deletes them from this site as well.

There's a link in my signature below (MySwing) where I have some videos from early in the year and a couple from this week. All I ask is to please not link or embed them into this thread.

Anyway, I always welcome advice and thoughts. I may not always act upon advice but I try to at least give it careful consideration. 

Nothing is very clear right now except that I cannot shoot low scores and cannot make my body do what I want it to. But damn, golf is so enjoyable when I have that full swing dialed in.

[JonMA1]

Successful Feels

Full swing with irons: 

• Keep the arc wide, straight arms.
• Early/extreme wrist hinge and high hands.
• Right elbow in towards left elbow at top.
• On the downswing, maintain the hinge, think low and forward with the hands - past the ball before impact.

Putting:

• Slow back. Slower, more controlled forward.
• "Followthrough" with putter head towards or along target line after rolling the ball.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by JonMA1

[JonMA1]

I took Erik's advice and for the last week or so have been working every night on my Driver and 5wood in the back yard. I'm losing a lot of golf balls and my legs are shredded from walking through the briar patches looking for them. Lol.

It's hard to know where to start... just doing slow swings trying to develop something that feels close to correct before taking video. I really have no idea of what to look for in my driver swing. I was told my swing plane is too upright but when I lower/flatten it, I can't even control contact. At least with a more vertical swing plane, poor contact wasn't normally the issue.

I know I'm not supposed to worry about shot results, but I'm not going to lie - it's all I have at this point. If I can't control the starting line and ball flight with these slow swings, I'll have no chance of keeping the ball in play when on the course.

As much as I want to gain control of these long clubs, I cannot lose ground on the slight gains I've made this year with my irons. That has happened each of the last couple of years and I'm trying hard not repeat those past mistakes. So I have budget time for both.

 

[JonMA1]

Decided to take DTL video of the driver and while I was at it, recorded a couple of 7i swings. There are a lot of issues that even I could see immediately - head movement and loss of posture throughout the swing, club face closed at A2, less than a full shoulder turn at A4 and so on.

But when I compared this side-by-side with Tiger's swing, wow, what a difference! His right arm seems to stay straight for a longest time on the backswing and the way he stays in posture so long after impact is amazing (not that I expecting the two swings to be very similar).

Anyway, I'm not going to do anything about these things right now and continue to focus on accomplishing my priority while on the course. In fact forgetting a lot of the flaws is probably the best thing I can do until after re-evaluating my priority at the end of the season.

[JonMA1]

@iacas - I just wanted to thank you for a couple of replies you provided in response to some questions regarding trouble I'd been having with my driver.

For the first time ever, I applied some partial and slow swings to my driver practice - specifically body movement and swing path from about A5 through A8. This had an immediate and positive effect on control. This sort of focused practice has provided some success with while working on my iron swing - I'm not sure why it took so long to apply the method to the driver.

Anyway, I've been making a point of repeatedly using this in each of my daily practice sessions.

I finally played a course today that required more use of this club than I'd been accustomed to since the struggles began. Not going to lie, there's a lot of work ahead. But because of that slow, specific practice, I had a reference point to go back to when things started to get off track.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

@iacas - I just wanted to thank you for a couple of replies you provided in response to some questions regarding trouble I'd been having with my driver.

I'm not sure which posts you mean, but you're welcome.

[JonMA1]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm not sure which posts you mean, but you're welcome.

All the general information is on this site and provided free of charge. Even if some can't see that, the vast majority of the members here are aware and appreciative. I think you know this but maybe it's nice to hear now and then.

The specifics - what my priority is, how to attack the problem, how to assess success or failure... - are what I'm trying to develop on my own. You likely know better than anyone that many of us don't know what we're doing and will never get very far, but it keeps the process interesting.

Anyway, thanks again.

Edited September 6, 2017 by JonMA1
typo

[JonMA1]

Followed up yesterday's decent round with another low 90's score. Even though today's course has a lower rating, it requires the use of driver and woods off the tee so it was a good test for what I've been trying to improve upon. 

While I didn't incur any penalties, I did top my 5w twice off the tee and my driver once. Other than that, dispersion was good. My playing partner said I came way out of posture when I topped the driver. He confirmed what I thought might be happening.

If anyone knows of any drills or swing thoughts to help prevent coming out of posture, please let me know. I'm not doing it every time and don't seem to be doing it with the irons.

Irons were very solid (one shank) and I've played a consistent fade the last two days. Hit more GIR's today but my putting was awful, but my intermediate short game (30 to 80 yards), which is usually a strength, was very poor as well.

[dennyjones]

4 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

If anyone knows of any drills or swing thoughts to help prevent coming out of posture, please let me know. I'm not doing it every time and don't seem to be doing it with the irons.

I saw something where you put a rope around your neck and a hook between your legs....

 

JUST KIDDING!  You can do this...

[JonMA1]

Still working on my driver with the priority of controlling my low point.

Tonight, I took the driver, 4i and 7i to the field. I'd "tee off" with the driver, hit a second shot with the 4i and the third with the 7i. The idea was to see how well I could hit without repeating shots from the same club.

With the driver, it was mostly to make sure I'd get a good launch angle and for the most part, I did ok. I guess the best way to describe the feel is pulling the handle and shaft down at a spot in front of the ball and trying to stay on that plane after impact.

During my last round on Sunday, I occasionally had poor contact and a low, straight-slice ball flight with my long irons. It has carried through to my practices this week. I believe the cause of this is a flip. The cause of the flip is either staying back (key #2), or bringing my hands up at impact (since I seem unable to maintain posture) instead of through.

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good practice. In the end, I was exaggerating the feel of keeping my hands low and making sure they were well in front of the ball coming into impact.

I took some dtl video with a 4i last night and noticed so many things that don't match a good player's swing. But when I mess around with trying to change anything, I always seem to go back to what's been working. 

[JonMA1]

So much for distance trumping accuracy... 

Played my first round of golf with the shortened driver and was very happy with control and distance. I hit my first drive of the day to the right on purpose to avoid water on the left. Unfortunately, it went beyond the out of bounds markers that I hadn't realized were there (first time playing this course). After that everything stayed in play until I topped one into a hazard (because I thought it would be a good idea to fix something that wasn't broken, ha ha).

I averaged 227yds on 7 drives with a very easy swing... about 8 yards longer than what I'd been averaging. I'd be ok with less distance and this kind of control.

All five of my 5w shots staying in play.

As far as the round, I don't think I've ever hit so many solid iron shots and scored so poorly. The course, which was a bit longer than I'm used to, was very tight with a lot of water - but that's not why I scored so poorly. I was hitting irons just far enough offline to lose them in the dense woods - tons of penalties from what has been my strength. It's been a long time since I've scored over 60 in 9 holes of golf. I shot a 49 the first time through.

Altogether, I averaged more distance but with less control and shot one of my highest scores in a while.

Edited September 23, 2017 by JonMA1

[JonMA1]

Felt good about my iron swing today after a couple of rounds of poorer contact. I'm happy this year with that part of my game.

The iron swing looks awkward. On one video taken from the course, my lead foot comes off the ground after impact with two consecutive 4iron shots. The thing is, contact and distance were great, and dispersion was ok with both. Not sure I'm ready to freak out over that.

Driver is still a huge problem. Been using a 30%-50% swing on both the range and on the course and the results have been a mixed bag. I still haven't figured out the mechanics so it's no wonder. Once I get that figured out, I can work on repeating it with the slower speed until it becomes 2nd nature, then start to increase speed.

At this point, I'd gladly trade distance for accuracy so long as I'm getting more from the driver than the other clubs.

[JonMA1]

After posting in the Swing Thoughts thread about trouble shots, I started to wonder if I was just delusional regarding my ability to pull trouble shots off that required a hook. I'd been fairly successful slicing around obstacles, but can't remember hooking a ball out of trouble. So I had this elaborate plan to set up a trouble shot, number some balls, take video and measure where each shot landed.

The target is blocked by a tree just to my left. The test was to start the ball right of the stake without hitting the larger tree on the right - about 40 yards away.

Well, it started getting dark and I was only able to plot 6 of the 8 (of the other two, one was close to the target, the other hooked left of it). All 8 shots curved left.

Could I have pulled off the shot Erik showcased? Not in a million years. But this exercise indicated I can get the ball to stay low and curve left.