Short Game Tips?

[SlaydenH]

Hey guys! Today I was out playing with a buddy and I was out driving and basically outplaying him until I got near the green. I would usually be some number of strokes ahead of him until I got within 20 yards. The only wedge I have is a 50degree and a pitching wedge and I would always seem to land it past the green or in the front of the green and it would roll off. So thats my first question. Obviously I need a shorter wedge and I plan on getting one but we are going out tomorrow and I was wondering if you guys had any tips on using longer wedges to your advantage on the green. My putting is also really struggling. I would be 10 yards away and I would 3 putt some holes. Any immediate tips to help would be great. Also what degree wedge do you think I should get? 58? 60? Thanks for any tips possible!

[CrazyD3]

This is what I carry for your reference: 52, 56 and 60.  If you want to keep your 50, then a 54 and 58 may be a good choice.  Or just get one 56 with a lot of bounce to start.

You may want to check out the Quickie pitching thread in here which show you a way to use bounce and distance control.  Very good indeed.

[Mr. Desmond]

A urethane cover ball will help if you're not using one -- a TP3, RBZ Urethane, Callaway HEX Chrome, or Crome+ are examples of balls on sale for $18 (TP3) to $30/dz.

For general technique around the greens, Stan Utley is a good place to start - it's basically moving the club head around one pivot point much like threads posted here by Mike and Erik. It's very similar and teaches you, like Mike and Erik, how to flight the ball low, medium and high depending on what you must do.

Check out youtube for Utley; and his Art of the Short Game.

I would suggest a 55-56, and a 60 with bounce and grinding so the leading edge is close to the ground at address.

[birlyshirly]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

[..]

I would suggest a 55-56, and a 60 with bounce and grinding so the leading edge is close to the ground at address.

how is that different to just a low bounce wedge?

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

how is that different to just a low bounce wedge?

Because my lobber has 18 degrees of bounce, and the SW has 14 deg of bounce.

[saevel25]

you can change the grind, so the bounce interacts differently with the ground.

Tip #1) TRUST THE CLUB TO DO THE WORK. I've seen so many people hit a 3-wood off the deck, hit long irons, when the get to a wedge with 50+ degrees of loft they try to help the ball into the air. Its crazy to think they can hit down with a long iron, but try to help up a wedge shot.

Seriously no matter what you do, if your trying to help the ball with your hands, your not going to chip very well. Let gravity do the work for you, you will find some great touch by varying hand speed, and were the hands finish in the swing.

[birlyshirly]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Because my lobber has 18 degrees of bounce, and the SW has 14 deg of bounce.

sorry - are you saying that you have wedges with 14* and 18* of bounce, but which nevertheless sit square with the leading edge close to the ground?

I think there's a bit of a problem with mottos like "use the bounce" when there's no real standard for measuring what bounce is.

I'm not saying my view is the only one possible, but I tend to think of bounce as the combination of sole angle, profile and width of sole that results in a raised leading edge - and that way, I think of "high bounce" as synonymous with a high leading edge. I know that there are some wedge designs which come labelled as having a high teens degree of bounce but still have a relatively low leading edge. Personally, I just question how correct, or helpful, it is to call those wedges "high bounce".

[saevel25]

http://www.vokey.com/vokes-notebook/Glossary.aspx

So combining sole width, sole chamber, bounce, you can get some really detailed specs on wedges. But that is the standard way to measure bounce. Of course with anything, there is measured bounced, and effective bounce. Closing the face, leaning the handle forward, will decrease the effective bounce.

A club with small sole chamber is more for full shots, while a wider sole chamber is something you would see on a sandwedge for bunker shots.

you are technically right, a high bounce will have a high leading edge, but that is not a detriment to pitching the ball. You can open wedge up, and still get it under a ball sitting on a cart path. Look at it this way. The ball has a diameter of 1.68, or radius of 0.84 inches.

As long as the leading edge gets under neath the equator of the ball, you will not thin the shot. Of course an ascending blow will shift the location of the relative equator down because the leading edge is now ascending. So, its really imperative that the person does not try to help the ball into the air.

Example, i hit some pitch shots from thin rough, close to some hard pan lies. I hit the shot with some bounce, and the club hits before the ball. the club slides a bit and still gets underneath it. It comes up shorter, but with less spin, and the results are not half bad. you try to chip that shot, you have to make sure you hit ball first no matter what, or your going to duff the shot.

[PirateJim]

I am happy with a 54 and 58 degree wedge to go with my 50 gap wedge, but in close the go-to club is the 58.  I too recommend viewing the Quickie Pitching Video here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video as well as Short Game Trajectories here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/54556/short-gametrajectories .  Stan Utley's book is also great, though it won't help you tomorrow.  For tomorrow, watch those videos then practice.  There's no getting around it, pitching and putting both just take practice.  They are about feel and touch and control.  A video can show you the technique, but only practice will let you put that technique to good use, no matter what clubs you may have.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

sorry - are you saying that you have wedges with 14* and 18* of bounce, but which nevertheless sit square with the leading edge close to the ground?

I think there's a bit of a problem with mottos like "use the bounce" when there's no real standard for measuring what bounce is.

I'm not saying my view is the only one possible, but I tend to think of bounce as the combination of sole angle, profile and width of sole that results in a raised leading edge - and that way, I think of "high bounce" as synonymous with a high leading edge. I know that there are some wedge designs which come labelled as having a high teens degree of bounce but still have a relatively low leading edge. Personally, I just question how correct, or helpful, it is to call those wedges "high bounce".

Take a look at http://edelgolf.com/online-wedge-fitting

The page shows the various grinds, select one and it describes the grind and bounce in general.

My opinion is that bounce is more than a number - you've got to look at the entire sole - while my LW has 18 of bounce (probably in the middle), it has grinding of the heel, toe, and trailing edge - it's a versatile wedge. There is a grind in front that reduces effective bounce and then as the club goes through the turf, the 18 takes over so you don't dig into the ground - I can also lay the shaft back and still have the leading edge close enough to add more dynamic loft. It's versatile and fits.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by birlyshirly

I think there's a bit of a problem with mottos like "use the bounce" when there's no real standard for measuring what bounce is.

There isn't, you're right. The width of the sole (and the radius, and how quickly the bounce decreases) affect playability.

My wedges are fairly high bounce - 22° in my 60° wedge - but they are shaved at the heel and toe so if I open them up I am probably still just getting back to 22° of bounce.

And you could make two wedges - one with 22° of bounce that extends for 1/4" and one with 22° of bounce that's 3/4" - and they'd sit, feel, and play totally differently, even if everything else was exactly the same.

In general, though, I prefer higher amounts of bounce for shorter depths with heel and toe relief. Wider soles with less bounce are sometimes okay, but they fail more often than not (they're okay out of soft things, but fail at harder/firmer conditions).