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Short GameTrajectories

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 

All shots here I hitting with a 56* wedge with 12* of bounce.  Varying arm flexion, weight, upper COG(center of gravity), face angle and handle locations to hit 5 shots at 5 different trajectories.  Very much building upon this Pitching Video

 

EDIT: Important to note that you don't have to follow the bullet point below exactly to hit these shots.  Lots of detail, just going over all the changes I'm making to hit the desired shots.  Priority would be how the arms are changing, from straightish to soft in order to engage the bounce.

 

 

Low, low

-Ball off the right foot

- Hands way forward

- narrow stance

- Chest in front of the ball

- Arms straight

- Little wrist movement as I side tilt to hit the shot.  Left shoulder down, no rotation, short backswing, hands forward

 

Mid, low

- Ball just back of center

- Clubface slightly left

- Hands forward, not as much as for Low,low

- Narrow stance, weight forward

- Chest not as far forward as for Low, low but slightly forward

- Arms are more relaxed

- Club head is going to swing a little more but hands are still forward on the followthrough.  Side tilt, no rotation.

 

Mid, Mid  ( I had the ball too far forward b4_blushing.gif)

- Ball center

- Clubface square

- Hands forward but less than Mid, low

- Wider stance, left foot turned out 30*, right 20*, weight forward

- Chest centered, stacked COG's

- Softer arms, elbows more at my side

- Softer arms helps keep the hands closer to my body as the clubhead swings.  Starting to use more of the bounce.  Club head even with hands on the followthrough

- Less tilting, arms swinging

 

High, mid (This is your standard bunker shot)

- Ball forward of center

- Clubface open

- Hands neutral, maybe slightly forward

- Wider stance, feet turned out, left foot turned out 35*

- Chest centered, Weight forward

- More flexion in arms, even softer, elbows more at my side.  More float loading feel

- Really feeling the "thump" of the bounce.  Club head overtakes my hands on the followthrough

 

High, high

- Ball off the left toe

-Clubface open

- Handle back, hands lower

- Wide stance, left foot turned out 40*

- Chest centered, weight forward

- Super soft arms, elbows at my side, very much float loading

- Hands stay at belt level as the club head overtakes the hands

 

 

post #2 of 35

Another great video!

post #3 of 35

thanks for posting - never thought of moving the ball forward in the stance & almost intentionally flipping the wrists to attain more loft - will try that !

post #4 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post

thanks for posting - never thought of moving the ball forward in the stance & almost intentionally flipping the wrists to attain more loft - will try that !



I know it may sound odd but it's very much what the pros do.  Just be careful with the term "flipping", the shaft is still forward for most shots, but not a lot.  Just that the hands aren't extending away from the body and the club re-hinges faster. 

 

P7 caddy Pitching 1.jpg

 

 

Very much along the lines of what Golf Evolution, Stan Utley, Phil Rodges, Mac O'Grady(who learned from Seve), and James Sieckman teach.  Important than when you are using the bounce to not stop the rotation and have the weight forward.  You can also see how I keep my knees flexed on the followthrough, helps with the rehinging on the followthrough.

 

Here's a clip from Jan this year at the Farmers in San Diego.  Can see how soft the arms are and that keeps keeps the rotation going.

 

post #5 of 35

Mike,

 

Thanks for posting.  Would the first two, low/low and mid/low be considered a chip because of the forward shaft lean at impact and ball before ground contact?

 

Scott

post #6 of 35

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Thanks for posting.  Would the first two, low/low and mid/low be considered a chip because of the forward shaft lean at impact and ball before ground contact?


I almost posted the same thing. ;-)

 

Again, I consider a chip a "leading edge" type shot and a pitch a "bounce" type shot.

 

Given that, technically the same swing with different clubs could be considered a "pitch" with a sand wedge and a "chip" with a lob wedge if you don't have much bounce on your LW, but it's still the best definition I've found.

 

Alternative definitions include how the arms and hands work (the firmer they are, the more like a chip, the softer, the more like a pitch). But that's a gradient more than even "leading edge/bounce" so that's why it's an alternative.

post #7 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Mike,

 

Thanks for posting.  Would the first two, low/low and mid/low be considered a chip because of the forward shaft lean at impact and ball before ground contact?

 

Scott

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


I almost posted the same thing. ;-)

 

Again, I consider a chip a "leading edge" type shot and a pitch a "bounce" type shot.

 

Given that, technically the same swing with different clubs could be considered a "pitch" with a sand wedge and a "chip" with a lob wedge if you don't have much bounce on your LW, but it's still the best definition I've found.

 

Alternative definitions include how the arms and hands work (the firmer they are, the more like a chip, the softer, the more like a pitch). But that's a gradient more than even "leading edge/bounce" so that's why it's an alternative.



I think that's a good point Scott.  I edited the video and the title of the thread.  My first inclination was to use "pitching" due to the distance I was hitting the shots, about 20 yards.  I agree with Erik's differences of the two terms.

 

post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 

Enjoy, he could be doing this off a putting green 

 

post #9 of 35

Mike,

 

Is there a difference in how "relaxed" the hands should be between the low trajectories and high?  I tend to really relax the hands for the pitch shots.  For the chips I have been using a little firmer grip.  Watching the Chevron tournaments, there has been a lot of camera work on chips and pitches and the Pros seem to have varied amounts of firmness in their grip.

 

Also, what is the effect of choking down on the shaft?  I have been doing this on some chips, but not pitches.

 

Scott

post #10 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Mike,

 

Is there a difference in how "relaxed" the hands should be between the low trajectories and high?  I tend to really relax the hands for the pitch shots.  For the chips I have been using a little firmer grip.  Watching the Chevron tournaments, there has been a lot of camera work on chips and pitches and the Pros seem to have varied amounts of firmness in their grip.

 

Also, what is the effect of choking down on the shaft?  I have been doing this on some chips, but not pitches.

 

Scott


I think for chips, having a firmer grip works out due to the stroke requiring almost "frozen" wrist alignments.  Choking down on the shaft allows you to stand closer to the ball, more upright, motion is more like a putting stroke.  Great for chips.

 

 

post #11 of 35

Enjoy,

 

 

post #12 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk golf View Post

Enjoy,

 

 


Yep....nice demonstration too.  Can hear the "click" when he's hitting those shots.

 

From today

 

 

 

post #13 of 35

Saw that Zack Johnson shot!  Even Tiger raved about it in the interview afterward.  I don't think our greens keepers would be too happy with us if we tried that at a local muni!!!

post #14 of 35

Hey Mike, here's some unknown who appears to mostly agree with you. a2_wink.gif

 

Screen shot 2011-12-14 at 10.56.50 AM.png

 

 

Screen shot 2011-12-14 at 10.57.19 AM.png

 

His bite-sized short game thought: The club should skid, not dig.

post #15 of 35

He seems to agree with the clubhead passing the hands, but not the body pivot.

post #16 of 35

Not sure I see it that way. To me, he's just confirming the key thought of move the hands a little and the club head a lot. The body pivot is to "get the club swinging" as he puts it, not to haul it around behind.

post #17 of 35

OK, I can see that. He agrees with the body pivot but it happens due to the clubhead pulling the body through after it, rather than the other way around. I always prefer to think of the clubhead hinging up and down, and not what my body is doing anyway.  

post #18 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

Hey Mike, here's some unknown who appears to mostly agree with you. a2_wink.gif

 

His bite-sized short game thought: The club should skid, not dig.


Where do you think he learned it from?   a2_wink.gif

 

Thanks for the pics Stretch!

 

 

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