Backspin?

[PapaBear]

Usually my balls hits and only moves a few inches or stops. I've started contacting the ball better and last couple of times out had 6-7 aprroach shots actually back up 4-5 feet including and 8i from 157. Didn't knw I cld do that with an 8i? Most balls today backed up same distance? How do you control har far the ball backs up?

[plum]

for the most part i have no idea when its going to happen. typically, mine hit and stop.  i know if I have too much club in my hand and hold off on the swing, its backing up.

I can always tell AFTER i hit the ball if its going to but by then, its too late...lol

[GingerGolfer]

If you're spinning it too much, you want to get the feeling that your angle of attack is a little more shallow, do you take a big divot after the ball?

[PapaBear]

I think my divots are smaller than average overall.

[PapaBear]

Thanks for the info Ginger. I've only been producing enough spin the get the ball to back up for abt 2 weeks. I'll take a look at dvot depth next time out. Thanks again.

[GingerGolfer]

It's hard then you could just be swing your wedges hard without realizing it, the softer you swing the less spin

[PapaBear]

I definitely think you are correct here because tempo is the No. 1 issue I have with swing. I have to remind myself to slow down. Unfortunately its been raining here but I can't wait to get out and try your suggestions. Thanks!

[saevel25]

Thanks for the info Ginger. I've only been producing enough spin the get the ball to back up for abt 2 weeks. I'll take a look at dvot depth next time out. Thanks again.

Why would you want to spin the ball back. If your ball isn't rolling off the green your fine. I rather have a ball that one hops and stops because its much more predictable than trying to judge the ball backing up. That can change depending on the course, the greens. If a green is sloped more it will backspin more.

If you're spinning it too much, you want to get the feeling that your angle of attack is a little more shallow, do you take a big divot after the ball?

Divots have nothing to do with spin. Even if you hit the ball more steeply your not going to effect the spin.

The reason we hit down with an iron is to optimize consistent contact.

[Dave2512]

People want to do it because they see pros do it. I agree that as amateurs we should hit shots we can be consistent with. I'm not shooting at flags. Just trying to get close enough to 2 putt. Spinning it back Phil style would do nothing for my game. Probably create more problems if anything.

[boil3rmak3r]

In Butch Harmon's book, "The Four Cornerstones of Winning Golf", he said that us amateurs are at a disadvange compared to the pros in terms of making balls spin back on the green. He says this, EVEN if the amateur has the same mechanics as a pro. His reasoning? 1. Pros play from meticulous fairways (cut no more than 1/2" tall) that allow for absolute perfect contact. 2. Pros are playing into very fast and very sloped greens (most slope from back to front). The faster a green is and the more slope from back to front, the easier it is to back up a ball. 3. Many of us amateurs play in the early morning, while dew is still on the ground. This moisture interacts with the club and the ball and will reduce spin. I have no idea if any of these thoughts are valid, but this thread reminded me of that book.

[saevel25]

Its trua. I played on very good, fast greens monday, i spun 4 golfballs off the greens. I cant do that on the municipal course i play on.

[GingerGolfer]

Why would you want to spin the ball back. If your ball isn't rolling off the green your fine. I rather have a ball that one hops and stops because its much more predictable than trying to judge the ball backing up. That can change depending on the course, the greens. If a green is sloped more it will backspin more.

Divots have nothing to do with spin. Even if you hit the ball more steeply your not going to effect the spin.

The reason we hit down with an iron is to optimize consistent contact.

I completely disagree. 100%. I've seen so many people say I'm spinning it too much with my driver, they go on trackman have a negative angle of attack and are spinning it around 4000. They learn to hit up, with a positive angle of attack and are spinning it around 2500. How does angle of attack not affect spin?

[saevel25]

That's a driver, not an iron. I'm not talking about going from positive to negative, I'm talking from going negative to more negative. That will not increase spin all that much..I've taken huge divots with an iron and the ball doesn't move back. I've taken shallow divots and spun the ball back a ton. Never once has a deep divot spun back for me.

[MS256]

If I want the ball to spin more than normal with irons (which isn't very often) I use a more lofted club and/or open the face more with a higher club head speed.

If I want the ball to spin less than normal with irons (which also isn't very often) I use a less lofted club and/or close the face more with a lower club head speed.

[GingerGolfer]

That's a driver, not an iron. I'm not talking about going from positive to negative, I'm talking from going negative to more negative. That will not increase spin all that much..I've taken huge divots with an iron and the ball doesn't move back. I've taken shallow divots and spun the ball back a ton. Never once has a deep divot spun back for me.

Ok a shallow divot doesn't always mean shallow angle of attack, it depends on how the clubface enters the turf, opened or closed, and if all of the club is touching the ground evenly (lie angle) but generally if you come down steeper the ball will come up the club face faster and ball will roll of the grooves with more spin

[saevel25]

Here's the thing, grooves do not produce more spin. Groves act like a tire, help maintain spin out of the rough. The grooves will catch grass and allow the ball to contact the club face. This is why pros have seen no spin drop from the fairway, but the ball comes out with much less spin in the rough. So pros are going for higher loft shots there to land softer. If you hit three degrees down, and change it to two degrees more your not going drastically increase the spin. Angle of attack effects launch angle more than spin, the ball just comes out lower.

[mdl]

I'm no trackman guru or anything, but assuming sweet spot contact aren't the only two things that affect spin club head speed at impact and dynamic loft (a combo of club loft and angle of attack).  Intuitively I want to disagree with saevel cause of the experience we've all had on green side shots, where given certain green conditions you can easily get a back of the stance little chip style shot to hop and stop, but hit a a higher pitch that lands in the same spot and rolls out much further.

But on a full shot, going from picking it almost clean with the hands only slightly forward at impact to big divot with the hands well forward at impact (not circus forward, real shot forward) isn't realistically going to deloft the club anything more than 1, maybe 2 clubs worth at most.  I know my 6i definitely spins less than my 8i, but not THAT much less.

I vote for either a sudden striking improvement in consistency of contact or swing speed being the culprit.

[saevel25]

Let's look at it this way. Let's take track man on this. Let's say you spin your wedge at 2.7 x club head speed x spin loft. Let's say you have a 60 mph pitch shot Let's say you have a dynamic loft of 35 and an angle of attack of 3, that's a spin loft of 38, and about 6156 rpm Let's say you hit more down, and are able to maintain same dynamic loft (unlikely), let's say 6 degrees down. Your rpm is only 6643. To put into perspective, 500 rpm is less than a pros average change in spin rate between typical irons, like going from a 9 iron to a PW. The spin gap is around 700 rpm. That is not a big jump, not enough to make drastic effect on how far back the ball will travel. It might allow you to draw it back, if the previous spin rate is at the borderline for you. Also the more you hit down, the more likely you'll hit the ball at a glancing blow. A shallows attack allows the club head to strike the ball much more solidly, which will ensure consistent sip rates. What if you hit down and hit it poorly, now you just hit it lower with much less spin, there goes the ball way past the hole.