Adding measurements from laser to yardage book for tournaments

[luu5]

They probably were using elevation. But their yardage books will often have those pre-marked, too, and often they're just confirming things in practice rounds.

Just to add. Players are (mostly?) using pre-made yardage books e.g. from here http://www.heinrichgolf.com/Professional.html. Why could they not use whatever technology available to amend those as they are originally created using hi-tech GPS etc systems anyway?

[ColinL]

so your're saying the one that measures gravitational pull on the ball can't be used unless otherwise stated in a local rule? ;-)

Using a device to measure anything (including distance)  that  can assist your play is a breach of Rule 14-3.   There is no local rule possible to allow any such measurement apart from distance.

Exceptionally,  Decision 14-3/0.5 allows a local rule to be made that  permits the use of a device to measure distance only.  If the device is capable of  measuring anything else  that could be useful in play, you cannot use it for measuring distance even if the other functions are switched off.

So, that means:

No local rule =  no measurement of anything that could help you in your play.

Local rule in place =  you can use a device like a GPS or laser range finder that can measure  distance only.  If the device is capable of measuring anything else that can help you in your play, you cannot even use it to measure distance.

In practical terms, for example, some laser rangefinders   come with a  with a slope measuring function and are  therefore not legal for competition play;

it is likely that your iPhone/smartphone cannot be used for measuring distance because it has, at the least,  gradient measuring capability.

[luu5]

Using a device to measure anything (including distance)  that  can assist your play is a breach of Rule 14-3.   There is no local rule possible to allow any such measurement apart from distance.

During stipulated round of course. OP was not about stipulated round, but I guess thread is not about OP anymore...

[Rulesman]

During stipulated round of course. OP was not about stipulated round, but I guess thread is not about OP anymore...

They never are. That's what's fun with forums.

[Hack2putt]

Using a device to measure anything (including distance)  that  can assist your play is a breach of Rule 14-3.   There is no local rule possible to allow any such measurement apart from distance. Exceptionally,  Decision 14-3/0.5 allows a local rule to be made that  permits the use of a device to measure distance only.  If the device is capable of  measuring anything else  that could be useful in play, you cannot use it for measuring distance even if the other functions are switched off. So, that means: No local rule =  no measurement of anything that could help you in your play. Local rule in place =  you can use a device like a GPS or laser range finder that can measure  distance only.  If the device is capable of measuring anything else that can help you in your play, you cannot even use it to measure distance. In practical terms, for example, some laser rangefinders   come with a  with a slope measuring function and are  therefore not legal for competition play; it is likely that your iPhone/smartphone cannot be used for measuring distance because it has, at the least,  gradient measuring capability.

Sorry I was joking on a thread that has been beaten to death...

[Hack2putt]

I didn't ever expect the. 'Gravitional pull measure device' would ever get past the R&A; anyway ;-) ...

[Rulesman]

I didn't ever expect the. 'Gravitional pull measure device' would ever get past the R&A; anyway ...

It is commonly seen in players' bags in the form of kitchen scales. THe justification argument may have something to do with 'traditional use'.

http://www.artisanti.com/librasco-black-vintage-kitchen-scales---imperial-and-metric-weights-13568-p.asp?gclid=CNzWktbJ07sCFWnjwgodVTgAOQ

[Hack2putt]

It is commonly seen in players' bags in the form of kitchen scales. THe justification argument may have something to do with 'traditional use'. [URL=http://www.artisanti.com/librasco-black-vintage-kitchen-scales---imperial-and-metric-weights-13568-p.asp?gclid=CNzWktbJ07sCFWnjwgodVTgAOQ]http://www.artisanti.com/librasco-black-vintage-kitchen-scales---imperial-and-metric-weights-13568-p.asp?gclid=CNzWktbJ07sCFWnjwgodVTgAOQ[/URL]

They used to make an attachment for that on old bag boy carts here in the US. I don't think they ever sold them to the Euro market? Just sayin ;-/

[Ignorant]

It's OK because the information has been gathered before the round rather than because the yardage book isn't electronic.  There is nothing to stop a player using an electronic device during a round to look up information previously entered into it. What he cannot of course do, is to use it to calculate, measure or gauge anything during his round that might assist his play.

Where does this 'calculate' come from? I had no idea that a calculator would be forbidden. I add up distances I measure with my DMD in my head but would it really be a breach of Rules if I used a calculator?

[Rulesman]

Well caught.

[ColinL]

Well caught.

Maybe, but I'll be back when I have time with an explanation which might redeem me.    Alternatively, it might just dig me a deeper hole.

Till later - which might be next year!

I hope you all have a great celebration on the way into 2014.

[Rulesman]

And you sir

[liquor box]

I think the Pros should use range finders, it would certainly speed up rounds.

I am far more concerned that Caddies assist lining up of shots and putts, Golf to me is an individual sport and should remain so.

[liquor box]

Using a device to measure anything (including distance)  that  can assist your play is a breach of Rule 14-3.

to be declared as a device does the device have to be digital?

Can you use a spirit level? Can you look at the angle that the driver cover cord hangs at to gauge the slope?

[ColinL]

No, it doesn't have to be digital.  Rule 14-3 refers  to an "artificial device", to unusual equipment and  to equipment used in an unusual manner (unless that use is traditionally accepted).

So no to using a spirit level because it is an artificial device being used for measuring slope.

If you hold your club cover up by the string to act as a kind of plumb line, then my view is  that this is a breach.  You are using equipment in an unusual manner.  Decision 14-3/11 prohibits the use of a plumb line.

You can however hold your putter up vertically to gauge the slope of a green as that is considered to be a traditionally accepted practice.  Decision 14-3/12 refers.

Interestingly, a yardage book is considered to be an artificial device but is allowed similarly because of its traditional usage.

[Rulesman]

to be declared as a device does the device have to be digital?

A distance measuring device can be something as simple as a tape measure.

[Rulesman]

Maybe, but I'll be back when I have time with an explanation which might redeem me.    Alternatively, it might just dig me a deeper hole.

Till later - which might be next year!

I hope you all have a great celebration on the way into 2014.

You can have a second celebration

14-3/16

Use of Electronic Devices

As provided in the Etiquette Section, players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players.

The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3 .

However, examples of uses of an electronic device during a stipulated round that are a breach of Rule 14-3 , for which the penalty is disqualification, include:

• Using the device to interpret or process any playing information obtained from current or previous rounds (e.g., driving distances, individual club yardages, etc.) or to assist in calculating the effective distance between two points (i.e., distance after considering gradient, wind speed and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).

[ColinL]

Thanks for that.  I had dug that Decision out this morning too.  I think it would have supported the use of calculate even without the explicit use of the word.  Interpreting and processing previous information sounds calculating to me.  I was just generally  thinking of the possibility  of devices with apps  which could perform some form of calculation, computation, number crunching in order to come up say with club selection.   Information in - calculation done-  advice out.   "Given your previous play at this hole and today's conditions, I recommend you take your 7 iron  for this shot, sir," your  iPhone murmurs deferentially into your ear.

I think this little fellow's calculations would offer even more than just club selection.  http://www.zepp.com/golfsense/