Adding measurements from laser to yardage book for tournaments

[Ignorant]

You can have a second celebration

14-3/16

Use of Electronic Devices

As provided in the Etiquette Section, players should ensure that any electronic device taken onto the course does not distract other players.

The use of an electronic device such as a mobile phone, hand-held computer, calculator, television or radio is not of itself a breach of Rule 14-3.

However, examples of uses of an electronic device during a stipulated round that are a breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, include:

Using the device to interpret or process any playing information obtained from current or previous rounds (e.g., driving distances, individual club yardages, etc.) or to assist in calculating the effective distance between two points (i.e., distance after considering gradient, wind speed and/or direction, temperature or other environmental factors).

Effective distance is something else than distance. So a calculator is ok when used for adding or subtracting distances measured with a DMD.

[Rulesman]

Effective distance is something else than distance. So a calculator is ok when used for adding or subtracting distances measured with a DMD.

Indeed.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignorant

Effective distance is something else than distance. So a calculator is ok when used for adding or subtracting distances measured with a DMD.

Indeed.

Sure.  A calculator doesn't measure anything.  What the rule defines is the type of measurement that may be made during play.  Once the numbers have been established in a manner allowed (i.e. not during a stipulated round), then those numbers are just information about features on the course, and it would be illogical to prohibit one from adding and subtracting on paper or with a calculator.

The real problem with the slope measurement is that it's not a true measurement.  It is a calculation based on an algorithm designed by a programmer.  It doesn't (can't possibly) take into consideration the variations in ball trajectory for different players.  The actual measurement may be 180 yards.  The slope feature adds 20 yards to that making it 200.  Is that 200 going to be the same for a strong player hitting a 5I and carrying the ball all the way to the green as it is for a 70 year old man playing a 3W and counting on 20 yards of roll to get there (which he won't get from an uphill landing area)?  For the stronger player it might be a 1/2 club, while the shorter hitter is seeing at least a 2 club difference from what he might hit if it was a level shot.

That's just an imagined possible scenario, and it's the reason I've never bought into the idea of even having a slope feature.  I have the distance, I can see the hill in front of me - I'd rather use my experience and judgement to select the club and swing needed to deal with it.  I want the actual distance with no other numbers thrown in to confuse the issue.

[Ignorant]

Sure.  A calculator doesn't measure anything.  What the rule defines is the type of measurement that may be made during play.  Once the numbers have been established in a manner allowed (i.e. not during a stipulated round), then those numbers are just information about features on the course, and it would be illogical to prohibit one from adding and subtracting on paper or with a calculator.

The real problem with the slope measurement is that it's not a true measurement.  It is a calculation based on an algorithm designed by a programmer.  It doesn't (can't possibly) take into consideration the variations in ball trajectory for different players.  The actual measurement may be 180 yards.  The slope feature adds 20 yards to that making it 200.  Is that 200 going to be the same for a strong player hitting a 5I and carrying the ball all the way to the green as it is for a 70 year old man playing a 3W and counting on 20 yards of roll to get there (which he won't get from an uphill landing area)?  For the stronger player it might be a 1/2 club, while the shorter hitter is seeing at least a 2 club difference from what he might hit if it was a level shot.

That's just an imagined possible scenario, and it's the reason I've never bought into the idea of even having a slope feature.  I have the distance, I can see the hill in front of me - I'd rather use my experience and judgement to select the club and swing needed to deal with it.  I want the actual distance with no other numbers thrown in to confuse the issue.

My thoughts exactly, only in better English :-)

[Fourputt]

My thoughts exactly, only in better English :-)

What the slope feature gives is advice disguised as information, and that is not allowed under the rules.  It says that you should play the hole as if it is "x" yards longer or shorter than it actually is, and that is not information.  The laser is making a judgement call based on a computer algorithm designed by a computer programmer, which really isn't any different from the player asking his fellow competitor if that looks like a one club or a two club rise.

[ColinL]

What the slope feature gives is advice disguised as information, and that is not allowed under the rules.  It says that you should play the hole as if it is "x" yards longer or shorter than it actually is, and that is not information.  The laser is making a judgement call based on a computer algorithm designed by a computer programmer, which really isn't any different from the player asking his fellow competitor if that looks like a one club or a two club rise.

A calculation, perchance?

[iacas]

A calculation, perchance?

As you know, even a laser measuring only distance is really just measuring time, and then doing some calculations to determine the distance.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

What the slope feature gives is advice disguised as information, and that is not allowed under the rules.  It says that you should play the hole as if it is "x" yards longer or shorter than it actually is, and that is not information.  The laser is making a judgement call based on a computer algorithm designed by a computer programmer, which really isn't any different from the player asking his fellow competitor if that looks like a one club or a two club rise.

A calculation, perchance?

It calculating, but it's doing so based on the opinion of the person who wrote the program.  Since that is base on some sort of average, it doesn't apply to all, and as such it still results in an opinion, which the Rules of Golf see as advice.  I see it as being no different from telling another player "This shot is a 7 iron." which may be true for you but may not be for him, and as such it amounts to expressing an opinion.  You can twist it any way you like, but it's still not going to come up as information as the Rules see it.  Information deals with absolutes.  Slope data as calculated by a laser rangefinder is not an absolute when applied to a golf shot.