The KyleAnthony Golf Opera Thread

[hopefulhacker]

Another Q: Are you looking into the mental side of the game? Working on the mechanics of the game (swing, putting etc) is vital but I would say that working on the mental side of the game is just as important. The recent comments are hopefully water under the bridge at this stage so I don't want to drag them up again but focusing on your reaction alone was interesting. It was as if someone stuck a "triple bogey" on your card and you went on to triple the next, double the one after and eventually you shot par on the 18th. You can't afford to react to bad news on the golf course like this, it's an area that I often see over looked. But there's no point having the perfect swing without being able to cope with a bad situation. It's an area I really improved upon this year. I went from averaging 95 to 88 and I would safely say it was mainly due to improving my mental game. Would be interested to hear if this is somthing you're looking at?

[KyleAnthony]

@Kyle

So where are you losing your shots in your recent bad rounds?

I'm not overly familiar with the US HC system, I'm aware that you use the best 10 from 20 recent rounds. Do you need to be shooting 72 average in those 10 to get to scratch? Or is there a buffer?

Without being harsh, on your recent rounds played you have to make a ~20-25 shot improvement.

Have you looked into this and analysised where you are "losing" these shots?

Do you keep detailed stats?

the last 2 rounds i literally could not hit the ball. it was like i had never swung a club before. and my putting was not grew either. as far as scratch golf. it is my understanding that if the rating is around 74/130 a scratch golfer would shoot 74. i may be wrong, but that is how i am understanding it. and on the other side if a course is 70/130 a scratch golfer would shoot 70.

Another Q:

Are you looking into the mental side of the game? Working on the mechanics of the game (swing, putting etc) is vital but I would say that working on the mental side of the game is just as important.

The recent comments are hopefully water under the bridge at this stage so I don't want to drag them up again but focusing on your reaction alone was interesting. It was as if someone stuck a "triple bogey" on your card and you went on to triple the next, double the one after and eventually you shot par on the 18th.

You can't afford to react to bad news on the golf course like this, it's an area that I often see over looked. But there's no point having the perfect swing without being able to cope with a bad situation.

It's an area I really improved upon this year. I went from averaging 95 to 88 and I would safely say it was mainly due to improving my mental game.

Would be interested to hear if this is somthing you're looking at?

ya i was having issues when i got back into it about paying to much attention to the score and when i would start doing well. i would get excited and mess up the back 9. it was common for me to shoot 40-49 or 42-51. since i have stopped paying attention to score it has really helped me out. on the last few rounds, excluding the last two, my scores have been 45-42, 50-41, and 44-42. before i stopped paying attention to score. my back 9 was never as good as my front. i haven't come across any other mental part of the game that i know how to improve yet. i think confidence in putts would help me a lot. i just have to get there

[hopefulhacker]

the last 2 rounds i literally could not hit the ball. it was like i had never swung a club before. and my putting was not grew either. as far as scratch golf. it is my understanding that if the rating is around 74/130 a scratch golfer would shoot 74. i may be wrong, but that is how i am understanding it. and on the other side if a course is 70/130 a scratch golfer would shoot 70. ya i was having issues when i got back into it about paying to much attention to the score and when i would start doing well. i would get excited and mess up the back 9. it was common for me to shoot 40-49 or 42-51. since i have stopped paying attention to score it has really helped me out. on the last few rounds, excluding the last two, my scores have been 45-42, 50-41, and 44-42. before i stopped paying attention to score. my back 9 was never as good as my front. i haven't come across any other mental part of the game that i know how to improve yet. i think confidence in putts would help me a lot. i just have to get there

Cheers thanks, am only getting familiar with your HC system over there. So for 72/130: 72 Course Rating and 130 is the slope.... and by that, 130 would be the standard slope... Anything lower than 130 would mean it's an easier course, and you may have to shoot a below 72. Think I'm getting the hang of it. I'd strongly recommend you start keeping detailed stats, there are plenty of free apps out there to do this. It really makes you look at your game in a different way. I would have always assumed that I was pretty good (relative to my HC) on Par 3's, once I started to build up my stats, my Par 3 scoring was shocking... I had a 4.1 average on them, I would have guessed 3.75 at worse, mainly because I could easily remember the single Par I got on 1/4 but I would manage to forget the double bogey I had quite successfully over time :-D I think it could be a good tool for you. I noticed you avoided the question, embrace the stats don't hide from them :-D I am now down to a 3.75 average (over the past 3 months) and my next goal is average 3.5 (in the next 3 months) I was very skeptical about looking at the mental side of things, but I am truly converted now. Karl Morris has a free app (only on IOS i think) called "The Mind Factor" and I found it great. It doesn't focus in on any specific area of your game, just your overall mental approach to each shot. He talks about some great stuff as the importance of visualization, remain "in neutral" (remaining calm), accepting that you may hit a bad shot etc Well work a look at both these areas, they may help take a few shots off your HC

[KyleAnthony]

Cheers thanks, am only getting familiar with your HC system over there.

So for 72/130: 72 Course Rating and 130 is the slope.... and by that, 130 would be the standard slope...

Anything lower than 130 would mean it's an easier course, and you may have to shoot a below 72. Think I'm getting the hang of it.

I'd strongly recommend you start keeping detailed stats, there are plenty of free apps out there to do this.

It really makes you look at your game in a different way. I would have always assumed that I was pretty good (relative to my HC) on Par 3's, once I started to build up my stats, my Par 3 scoring was shocking...

I had a 4.1 average on them, I would have guessed 3.75 at worse, mainly because I could easily remember the single Par I got on 1/4 but I would manage to forget the double bogey I had quite successfully over time

I think it could be a good tool for you. I noticed you avoided the question, embrace the stats don't hide from them

I am now down to a 3.75 average (over the past 3 months) and my next goal is average 3.5 (in the next 3 months)

I was very skeptical about looking at the mental side of things, but I am truly converted now.

Karl Morris has a free app (only on IOS i think) called "The Mind Factor" and I found it great.

It doesn't focus in on any specific area of your game, just your overall mental approach to each shot.

He talks about some great stuff as the importance of visualization, remain "in neutral" (remaining calm), accepting that you may hit a bad shot etc

Well work a look at both these areas, they may help take a few shots off your HC

im not to sure of how the slope works, but i think its more based on rating. i keep stats like GIR, FIR, putts, penalty strokes, how well i do on par 3's 4's and 5's. right now i think I'm averaging 5 GIR, 8 FIR, and 1.85 putts per hole. and 3 penalty strokes a game. and thank you for the tip on the mind factor i'll have to check that out.

[lyeager1981]

Formula is (score - rating)*(113 standard / current course slope). so you are correct that if you shoot exactly what the rating is then it's a 0 differential. If you shot 75 then it would be about a .87 differential.

[iacas]

For scratch golfers the slope doesn't really come into play very much. Even a 155 slope course adjusts your rating 37%, and 37% of what should be a number close to zero is not very much.

[geauxforbroke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopefulhacker

Cheers thanks, am only getting familiar with your HC system over there.

So for 72/130: 72 Course Rating and 130 is the slope.... and by that, 130 would be the standard slope...

Anything lower than 130 would mean it's an easier course, and you may have to shoot a below 72. Think I'm getting the hang of it.

I'd strongly recommend you start keeping detailed stats, there are plenty of free apps out there to do this.

It really makes you look at your game in a different way. I would have always assumed that I was pretty good (relative to my HC) on Par 3's, once I started to build up my stats, my Par 3 scoring was shocking...

I had a 4.1 average on them, I would have guessed 3.75 at worse, mainly because I could easily remember the single Par I got on 1/4 but I would manage to forget the double bogey I had quite successfully over time

I think it could be a good tool for you. I noticed you avoided the question, embrace the stats don't hide from them

I am now down to a 3.75 average (over the past 3 months) and my next goal is average 3.5 (in the next 3 months)

I was very skeptical about looking at the mental side of things, but I am truly converted now.

Karl Morris has a free app (only on IOS i think) called "The Mind Factor" and I found it great.

It doesn't focus in on any specific area of your game, just your overall mental approach to each shot.

He talks about some great stuff as the importance of visualization, remain "in neutral" (remaining calm), accepting that you may hit a bad shot etc

Well work a look at both these areas, they may help take a few shots off your HC

im not to sure of how the slope works, but i think its more based on rating. i keep stats like GIR, FIR, putts, penalty strokes, how well i do on par 3's 4's and 5's. right now i think I'm averaging 5 GIR, 8 FIR, and 1.85 putts per hole. and 3 penalty strokes a game. and thank you for the tip on the mind factor i'll have to check that out.

Simply put, slope rating is a comparison of how much more difficult a course is for a bogey golfer than for a scratch golfer. As Erik mentioned, the slope rating really doesn't come into play for a scratch golfer.

Just as an FYI, the variables that go into calculating slope rating are:

The scratch course rating (simply called course rating) is the theoretical number of strokes it should take a scratch golfer to complete a course under normal weather and conditions.

The bogey course rating is the theoretical number of strokes it should take a bogey golfer (approximately 20 handicap) to complete a course under normal conditions.

The slope rating is calculated by subtracting the scratch rating from the bogey rating, then multiplying by a factor of 5.381 for men, 4.24 for women. In the example above, if the scratch rating is 72 and the slope rating is 130, the bogey rating would be 96.2. (96.2 - 72) * 5.381 = 130. An "average" slope rating is 113, but most courses have a higher rating, especially from longer tees. Take a look at the USGA handicap website . There's a lot more (and better) information there.

[KyleAnthony]

thank you everyone for the answers. thats interesting to learn

[hopefulhacker]

Simply put, slope rating is a comparison of how much more difficult a course is for a bogey golfer than for a scratch golfer. As Erik mentioned, the slope rating really doesn't come into play for a scratch golfer.

Just as an FYI, the variables that go into calculating slope rating are:

The scratch course rating (simply called course rating) is the theoretical number of strokes it should take a scratch golfer to complete a course under normal weather and conditions.

The bogey course rating is the theoretical number of strokes it should take a bogey golfer (approximately 20 handicap) to complete a course under normal conditions.

The slope rating is calculated by subtracting the scratch rating from the bogey rating, then multiplying by a factor of 5.381 for men, 4.24 for women. In the example above, if the scratch rating is 72 and the slope rating is 130, the bogey rating would be 96.2. (96.2 - 72) * 5.381 = 130. An "average" slope rating is 113, but most courses have a higher rating, especially from longer tees. Take a look at the USGA handicap website. There's a lot more (and better) information there.

And there was me thinking I was getting the hang of it

Thanks folks.

[tristanhilton85]

ya i was having issues when i got back into it about paying to much attention to the score and when i would start doing well. i would get excited and mess up the back 9. it was common for me to shoot 40-49 or 42-51. since i have stopped paying attention to score it has really helped me out. on the last few rounds, excluding the last two, my scores have been 45-42, 50-41, and 44-42. before i stopped paying attention to score. my back 9 was never as good as my front. i haven't come across any other mental part of the game that i know how to improve yet. i think confidence in putts would help me a lot. i just have to get there

First off, it was fun meeting and playing a round with you out there. Oak Valley is a tough course and it got both of us pretty good. I did kind of see what you were talking about as far as the game elevating when you kind of "checked out" and didn't care so much any more... there is a thread around here about dealing with pressure on the course, it'd be a good read for you... It's something that I need to go back and read as well.

Obviously you've set a very, very hard goal to reach, and after meeting you, I am positive that it is something that you really want to accomplish. In all honesty, the chances of reaching your goal is going to be very slim, but I think you know that. The only reason I say this, is that at this point I'm at roughly the same level as you in my game (low teen handicap). My goal this year is to have just a single digit handicap, and I know how tough that is going to be for me, so much so that I can't imagine getting to a scratch. One thing that I've noticed as I've progressed is that I have a new appreciation for how tough it is to shave that next stroke off your game. When I joined this site a few years ago I was probably around a 22 or so. I didn't actually have a handicap at the time but I'd shoot scores around 105, on a good day I'd be in the upper 90s. I got better pretty quickly when I learned how to practice a little better and when I learned a little more about the swing. I started keeping a handicap around the time I was an 18 and dropped down to a 12 in about a year. That was over a year ago... since that time I've kind of hit a wall, have seen my index go up to a 14 and then back down to 11. At this point it will be a real fight to get to a 10 and then a 9. Early on, rapid improvement is easy because you throw away so many shots that fixing just a small percentage of them helps out significantly. For example, just learning to keep the ball in play off the tee on most holes can do wonders. However, as you get lower and lower the margin for error is so much smaller. You can't expect everything to be perfect, obviously, but your less than perfect shots (which will be most of them) have to be a lot better than before. I hit shots now that I am disgusted with, two years ago I would have been thrilled when I hit those shots.

The thing is, to get better, everything has to get better. You have to practice better, you have to plan better, you have to handle pressure better, and you have to execute better. At a bogey golfer level, you can make some improvements just hitting balls because you'll at least gain a bit of constancy. The thing is, you are beyond that point now. You need to figure out which piece you need to work on the most, and then focus on just that one thing. Going from one fleeting swing thought to the next doesn't help. I know because I do it. You said earlier that you remembered on the back to take your club straight back, and that thought seemed to work for you for that 9, but I'm sure throughout the round there are different things you were trying. You also said that you would keep an open mind and take tips, etc. and I'd just warn you to be careful of that. That is one reason I don't get Golf magazines anymore. Even though I know that most of that stuff is crap instruction anyways (and the little that is good, probably isn't my priority piece anyways) I can't help but to try it out. At this point the only thing I really do is post my swing here once in a while and listen to what Mike and Erik (and a few other select members who I trust) and that's it. For me, I know that I really need to turn more and stretch out my right side, and maybe focus on not letting the club get so deep in my take away. Those are the things that I need to work on. Are there other things in my swing that need work? Hell yes, but not nearly as much. It's hard to do a lot of things at once, so you just focus on the one (or maybe two) biggest ones and then move on once you've truly fixed them. The question is, do you know what it is that you need to do to improve? What are the tiny things you need to fix to change the picture? If you can't answer that question specifically then it's going to be hard to improve.

im not to sure of how the slope works, but i think its more based on rating. i keep stats like GIR, FIR, putts, penalty strokes, how well i do on par 3's 4's and 5's. right now i think I'm averaging 5 GIR, 8 FIR, and 1.85 putts per hole. and 3 penalty strokes a game. and thank you for the tip on the mind factor i'll have to check that out.

I found that formula I was talking to you about that figures out your average score based on GIR... its 95.1 - 2xGIR... using that formula you should be shooting around 85 on average with the number of greens you hit. Even yesterday, you hit 4 greens IIRC so by that formula you should of have shot 87. That should help you figure out the area that you need to focus on improving. After playing yesterday, and talking with you, I know that you really need to work on short game shots a bit and feel more comfortable with them. You hit the ball a pretty long way, so you have to be comfortable hitting short approaches, otherwise you've given up any advantage that you had. If you honestly feel that you have a better chance at getting it on and somewhat close from 140 yards out vs. 70 yards out, then that's going to hurt you.

Anyways, I didn't mean to ramble on and on, but I just saw the way the thread took a turn there for a minute and wanted to give my two cents, especially since I had the opportunity to play a round with you and others haven't.

Like you said, there is a lot of good info on this forum. You've set what many would call and unobtainable goal, so your best place to start if you are going to prove them wrong is with the following threads IMO:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

http://thesandtrap.com/t/67401/the-virtue-of-being-a-stupid-monkey-and-how-it-can-help-your-golf-game

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53453/the-mental-game-in-two-words

Lastly, I know that you still have lessons left with your pro, but once those are done, I'd really consider something like evolvr or in person lessons with Mike ( @mvmac ). Evolvr is a pretty cost effective alternative if you don't have the funds or the time to meet up with somebody in person. @Golfingdad and others can attest to that.

[KyleAnthony]

First off, it was fun meeting and playing a round with you out there. Oak Valley is a tough course and it got both of us pretty good. I did kind of see what you were talking about as far as the game elevating when you kind of "checked out" and didn't care so much any more... there is a thread around here about dealing with pressure on the course, it'd be a good read for you... It's something that I need to go back and read as well.

Obviously you've set a very, very hard goal to reach, and after meeting you, I am positive that it is something that you really want to accomplish. In all honesty, the chances of reaching your goal is going to be very slim, but I think you know that. The only reason I say this, is that at this point I'm at roughly the same level as you in my game (low teen handicap). My goal this year is to have just a single digit handicap, and I know how tough that is going to be for me, so much so that I can't imagine getting to a scratch. One thing that I've noticed as I've progressed is that I have a new appreciation for how tough it is to shave that next stroke off your game. When I joined this site a few years ago I was probably around a 22 or so. I didn't actually have a handicap at the time but I'd shoot scores around 105, on a good day I'd be in the upper 90s. I got better pretty quickly when I learned how to practice a little better and when I learned a little more about the swing. I started keeping a handicap around the time I was an 18 and dropped down to a 12 in about a year. That was over a year ago... since that time I've kind of hit a wall, have seen my index go up to a 14 and then back down to 11. At this point it will be a real fight to get to a 10 and then a 9. Early on, rapid improvement is easy because you throw away so many shots that fixing just a small percentage of them helps out significantly. For example, just learning to keep the ball in play off the tee on most holes can do wonders. However, as you get lower and lower the margin for error is so much smaller. You can't expect everything to be perfect, obviously, but your less than perfect shots (which will be most of them) have to be a lot better than before. I hit shots now that I am disgusted with, two years ago I would have been thrilled when I hit those shots.

The thing is, to get better, everything has to get better. You have to practice better, you have to plan better, you have to handle pressure better, and you have to execute better. At a bogey golfer level, you can make some improvements just hitting balls because you'll at least gain a bit of constancy. The thing is, you are beyond that point now. You need to figure out which piece you need to work on the most, and then focus on just that one thing. Going from one fleeting swing thought to the next doesn't help. I know because I do it. You said earlier that you remembered on the back to take your club straight back, and that thought seemed to work for you for that 9, but I'm sure throughout the round there are different things you were trying. You also said that you would keep an open mind and take tips, etc. and I'd just warn you to be careful of that. That is one reason I don't get Golf magazines anymore. Even though I know that most of that stuff is crap instruction anyways (and the little that is good, probably isn't my priority piece anyways) I can't help but to try it out. At this point the only thing I really do is post my swing here once in a while and listen to what Mike and Erik (and a few other select members who I trust) and that's it. For me, I know that I really need to turn more and stretch out my right side, and maybe focus on not letting the club get so deep in my take away. Those are the things that I need to work on. Are there other things in my swing that need work? Hell yes, but not nearly as much. It's hard to do a lot of things at once, so you just focus on the one (or maybe two) biggest ones and then move on once you've truly fixed them. The question is, do you know what it is that you need to do to improve? What are the tiny things you need to fix to change the picture? If you can't answer that question specifically then it's going to be hard to improve.

I found that formula I was talking to you about that figures out your average score based on GIR... its 95.1 - 2xGIR... using that formula you should be shooting around 85 on average with the number of greens you hit. Even yesterday, you hit 4 greens IIRC so by that formula you should of have shot 87. That should help you figure out the area that you need to focus on improving. After playing yesterday, and talking with you, I know that you really need to work on short game shots a bit and feel more comfortable with them. You hit the ball a pretty long way, so you have to be comfortable hitting short approaches, otherwise you've given up any advantage that you had. If you honestly feel that you have a better chance at getting it on and somewhat close from 140 yards out vs. 70 yards out, then that's going to hurt you.

Anyways, I didn't mean to ramble on and on, but I just saw the way the thread took a turn there for a minute and wanted to give my two cents, especially since I had the opportunity to play a round with you and others haven't.

Like you said, there is a lot of good info on this forum. You've set what many would call and unobtainable goal, so your best place to start if you are going to prove them wrong is with the following threads IMO:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

http://thesandtrap.com/t/67401/the-virtue-of-being-a-stupid-monkey-and-how-it-can-help-your-golf-game

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53453/the-mental-game-in-two-words

Lastly, I know that you still have lessons left with your pro, but once those are done, I'd really consider something like evolvr or in person lessons with Mike (@mvmac). Evolvr is a pretty cost effective alternative if you don't have the funds or the time to meet up with somebody in person. @Golfingdad and others can attest to that.

thank you tristan. the things i feel i need to work on are approach shots for sure. that would help me so much. i am really going to look into that orange whip thing you have because just swinging your driver i could feel the weight effect my swing for the good. thank you also for the links as well. as far as lessons with mike or evolvr. as soon as a get a little cash i would honestly love to do that. and as far as shots within 100 yards i am working on it a little, but i am so hesitant to bring it to the course. i don't know why. I'm not playing for money or anything. i think I'm going to play today and not be afraid of shots I'm not comfortable with just to practice them and maybe build some confidence in them. its funny cuz i see the pros on tv get it so close to the pin from within 100 yards and I'm like what the heck thats crazy. haha. and thank you for the formula. i will definatly use it to see where i need to practice

[Golfingdad]

My goal this year is to have just a single digit handicap, and I know how tough that is going to be for me, so much so that I can't imagine getting to a scratch. One thing that I've noticed as I've progressed is that I have a new appreciation for how tough it is to shave that next stroke off your game. When I joined this site a few years ago I was probably around a 22 or so. I didn't actually have a handicap at the time but I'd shoot scores around 105, on a good day I'd be in the upper 90s. I got better pretty quickly when I learned how to practice a little better and when I learned a little more about the swing. I started keeping a handicap around the time I was an 18 and dropped down to a 12 in about a year. That was over a year ago... since that time I've kind of hit a wall, have seen my index go up to a 14 and then back down to 11. At this point it will be a real fight to get to a 10 and then a 9. Early on, rapid improvement is easy because you throw away so many shots that fixing just a small percentage of them helps out significantly. For example, just learning to keep the ball in play off the tee on most holes can do wonders. However, as you get lower and lower the margin for error is so much smaller. You can't expect everything to be perfect, obviously, but your less than perfect shots (which will be most of them) have to be a lot better than before. I hit shots now that I am disgusted with, two years ago I would have been thrilled when I hit those shots.

Good post Tristan.  I agree with the idea of setting the more moderate, attainable goals.  I think it's great to set bold goals, as well, but I don't like the idea of setting a bold goal along with a deadline.  Because if you don't reach it, what then??  Do you quit?  I would hope not.

I've outlined them in the yearly goals thread, but basically, my goal is to lower my handicap ... period.  Here's a recent quote from Erik in another swing thread (mattm for those interested) that, I think, sums it all up perfectly:

Originally Posted by iacas

Great. Thanks for the update. Keep at it - people don't change things about their swings instantly. Lots of work ahead. Be ready for it, accept it, and if you get 0.01% better with every practice swing and session, that's forward progress.

That is right on the money.  Forward progress is the goal ... of any amount.  Last year at this point I was a 9.9 and in September I was a 6.8.  Now I'm a 8.2 so I could be really discouraged and quit, or I could realize that I hit a little wall, had a slump, now I need to bear down and keep working.  After all, I dropped almost 2 full strokes over the course of the year ... that's pretty danged good I think.

[Phil McGleno]

Wow-Surprised you are still posting in this thread [S]Eric[/S]Erik.-Did you even apologize @KyleAnthony ?-I dont know if I would keep giving free advice to someone who called you a Liar/Attacker/Rude/Asked if you would put Yourself in the PenaltyBox. If he apologized That is fine and I missed it but man. I will assume I just missed it. @KyleAnthony -Erik wasnt even talking about this but I'll say it because you apparently need to hear it: you arent going to get to scratch this year. It would be better for You to set reasonable goals.-Breaking 90 consistently is a good first one. Then when you achieve it set another goal. Its more fun to achieve goals than to come up miles short of them. In the tough love vein-Im a cranky old guy so its kind of my thing-A few more thoughts. 1-Are you sure youve shot 87 or 81 or whatever your lower scores are? Do you know and follow all of the Rules religiously? Played with a guy that couldn't break 90 in tournament rounds but shot in the 70s often enough playing by himself. Hed give himself the occasional putt-Or say "I wasn't really concentrating" on an occasional shot and hit another. Somehow that was enough for the 10-stroke difference even though he only did it a few times. 2-Quote below. [quote name="KyleAnthony" url="/t/71817/operation-scratch-2014/144#post_939374"] i am really going to look into that orange whip thing you have because just swinging your driver i could feel the weight effect my swing for the good. [/quote] You sound like youre the type of guy who will constantly be chasing the next ting and thinking that will always solve your game. Fact of the matter is that four of your last seven scores average out to 95 yet you got upset shooting 99, and you think that "taking the club straight Back" was the reason for a 13-shot improvement over the front nin.e. Golf is a game of ups and downs and is not a game of quick fixes that actually work. The Orange whip is nice because it can help you stretch out and have a nice tempo but it is not a magical cure-all and that money would be better spent on something else probably. Stop chasing the quick fix. There is a lot of good information on this site-I shit you not Ive been around the golf world for a long time and theres more good or great info here than anywhere else Ive ever seen, and I dnt just mean websites but top 100 instructor golf academies and you name it. Most of the members and the owners here especially care about golfers and do a damn fine job of helping people who want to be helped but they cannot help people like yourself who just wnat to break 90 or 80 or 70 today.-You might say that youre not a quick fix guy but the fact that you have a goal to shoot scratch in 2014-Something you have 0.00000001% chance of doing-says that you are. Get pissed at me for saying this stuff if you want.-But I think youd be doing yerself no favors.

[KyleAnthony]

Good post Tristan.  I agree with the idea of setting the more moderate, attainable goals.  I think it's great to set bold goals, as well, but I don't like the idea of setting a bold goal along with a deadline.  Because if you don't reach it, what then??  Do you quit?  I would hope not.

I've outlined them in the yearly goals thread, but basically, my goal is to lower my handicap ... period.  Here's a recent quote from Erik in another swing thread (mattm for those interested) that, I think, sums it all up perfectly:

That is right on the money.  Forward progress is the goal ... of any amount.  Last year at this point I was a 9.9 and in September I was a 6.8.  Now I'm a 8.2 so I could be really discouraged and quit, or I could realize that I hit a little wall, had a slump, now I need to bear down and keep working.  After all, I dropped almost 2 full strokes over the course of the year ... that's pretty danged good I think.

to be quite honest me one real goal that i want more than anything is to just hit the ball consistent. I'm kind of thinking of not working on fixing my swing so much and just get my current swing consistent. i play a fade which is ok and its like 75% consistent so i think I'm just going to work on that. my logic behind working on the consistent swing is i think everything else will fall in place (GIR is what I'm really thinking) right now i hit 60% of my fairways which has gone down with yesterday round, but only like 3% i would realistically like to improve my GIR 5% a month (Currently at 30.5%) and FIR 2% every month. i kinda of just thought that if i could get to 75% fairways and 70% greens and average 30 putts a round i would be pretty close to scratch.

so i guess i'll change my goals and outline them here and i won't worry about handicap. i made a little chart at home to view progress so i'll set my goals monthly and update the results monthly  and compare to the previous month. so here we go

Current: 30.6% GIR 59% FIR 1.91 Putts Index 13.9

January Goal: 35% GIR  63% FIR 1.89 Putts Index 12.8

February Goal: 40% GIR 66% FIR 1.86 Putts index 12.0

March Goal: 45% GIR 69% FIR 1.82 Putts Index 11.5

April Goal: 50% GIR 72% FIR 1.79 Putts Index 11.0

May Goal: 54% GIR 74% FIR 1.77 Putts Index 10.6

June Goal: 57% GIR 75% FIR 1.74 Putts Index 10.2 (would like to break 80 once)

July Goal: 59% GIR 77% FIR 1.72 Putts Index 9.8

August Goal: 61% GIR 78% FIR 1.70 Putts Index 9.3

September Goal: 63% GIR 79% FIR 1.68 Putts Index 8.8

October Goal: 65% GIR 81% FIR 1.67 Putts Index 8.5

November Goal: 68% GIR 82% FIR 1.67 Putts Index 8.1

December Goal: 69% GIR 83% FIR 1.66 Putts Index 7.9

so i think that would be more realistic and i would be tracking stats for that month only to compare to the month previous

[KyleAnthony]

Wow-Surprised you are still posting in this thread EricErik.-Did you even apologize @KyleAnthony?-I dont know if I would keep giving free advice to someone who called you a Liar/Attacker/Rude/Asked if you would put Yourself in the PenaltyBox. If he apologized That is fine and I missed it but man. I will assume I just missed it.

@KyleAnthony-Erik wasnt even talking about this but I'll say it because you apparently need to hear it: you arent going to get to scratch this year. It would be better for You to set reasonable goals.-Breaking 90 consistently is a good first one. Then when you achieve it set another goal.

Its more fun to achieve goals than to come up miles short of them.

In the tough love vein-Im a cranky old guy so its kind of my thing-A few more thoughts.

1-Are you sure youve shot 87 or 81 or whatever your lower scores are? Do you know and follow all of the Rules religiously? Played with a guy that couldn't break 90 in tournament rounds but shot in the 70s often enough playing by himself. Hed give himself the occasional putt-Or say "I wasn't really concentrating" on an occasional shot and hit another. Somehow that was enough for the 10-stroke difference even though he only did it a few times.

2-Quote below.

You sound like youre the type of guy who will constantly be chasing the next ting and thinking that will always solve your game. Fact of the matter is that four of your last seven scores average out to 95 yet you got upset shooting 99, and you think that "taking the club straight Back" was the reason for a 13-shot improvement over the front nin.e. Golf is a game of ups and downs and is not a game of quick fixes that actually work. The Orange whip is nice because it can help you stretch out and have a nice tempo but it is not a magical cure-all and that money would be better spent on something else probably. Stop chasing the quick fix. There is a lot of good information on this site-I shit you not Ive been around the golf world for a long time and theres more good or great info here than anywhere else Ive ever seen, and I dnt just mean websites but top 100 instructor golf academies and you name it. Most of the members and the owners here especially care about golfers and do a damn fine job of helping people who want to be helped but they cannot help people like yourself who just wnat to break 90 or 80 or 70 today.-You might say that youre not a quick fix guy but the fact that you have a goal to shoot scratch in 2014-Something you have 0.00000001% chance of doing-says that you are.

Get pissed at me for saying this stuff if you want.-But I think youd be doing yerself no favors.

ok. my last7 scores were 99, 100, 87, 91, 86, 89, 95. it averages to 92.42. I'm over it and i would like to move the thread along without arguing please. and yes i follow all the rules. that is why i average 3 penalty strokes a round. and like i stated before. i didn't think it was a realistic goal. it was just something crazy to shoot for. i would not be discouraged at the end of the year if i was not a scratch golfer. i just want to improve more and more. i see myself improving and therefore i am happy

[iacas]

to be quite honest me one real goal that i want more than anything is to just hit the ball consistent. I'm kind of thinking of not working on fixing my swing so much and just get my current swing consistent.

You are consistent. That's why you're not a great golfer. I'm going to quote myself. I may have said it differently or better, because I've typed out various versions of this several times already, but this was the first decent one I found, so:

You may not believe it, but here goes... the average golfer (maybe not one playing for three months, but still, probably even you) already have a consistent, repeatable swing. Sure, the timing of some tiny thing may be different from swing to swing, but if you record two swings, they're going to be really, REALLY similar to each other.

The problem is that the swings are consistently bad.

People say "if only I could be consistent..." when they already are.

@david_wedzik puts it another way. He'll point out the guy who shoots 87 (see?) who will say "Yeah but what about that 7-iron on the 12th hole? I pured that sucker! If I could just do that every time, I'd be scratch in no time!" He points out that what that golfer doesn't realize is that THAT shot is the aberration. It was the one that strayed from the norm. The other 30 full swing shots, THOSE are the "normal" shots that the consistent swing that golfer has produces. It'd be like a PGA Tour player shanking the ball once and worrying that he's now going to struggle to break 130. That shot was the aberration for the PGA Tour player, just as the great shot was the aberration for the not-as-god player.

So congratulations! You're already there. You're consistent. Now you can get back to improving what's consistent about your swing.

i kinda of just thought that if i could get to 75% fairways and 70% greens and average 30 putts a round i would be pretty close to scratch.

As nicely as I can put it…

December Goal: 69% GIR 83% FIR 1.66 Putts Index 7.9

If you hadn't typed out that series of escalating stats, I'd have to assume you made a typo. Seriously, I'd love to meet the guy who would be top five or ten on the PGA Tour in GIR but who has a 7.9 index with 1.66 putts per hole.

Here are some stats of a scratch golfer I know.

GIR: 52%

Fairways: 48%

PPGIR: 1.8

Total Putts: 28 (1.56)

Slightly better putter than average, probably, and I know he plays smaller greens typically so a good number of putts from the fringe count as missed GIRs.

Seriously, how are you going to hit 12 or 13 GIR with 1.66 putts per hole and barely break 80 and only occasionally?

You can't just keep adding 3% or 5% or whatever to your stats and expect them to make sense. It's not a linear scale.

my last7 scores were 99, 100, 87, 91, 86, 89, 95. it averages to 92.42.

I'm glad you're over it. I'm past it too, but I'm a bit surprised that this was how you responded to @Phil McGleno :

• Never mind…
• He pointed out the importance of having GOOD goals that you can ATTAIN.
• He pointed out that you seem to be a "quick fix" guy and why that's probably not a good thing.
• I'm pretty sure that's a "tortoise and the hare" reference, which is really just another way of saying my last bullet point, so I'm duplicating it too apparently. :P

Oh, and thanks Phil for the compliment on the knowledge here.

Here's my own loosely related image.

[Phil McGleno]

This is fun- OK Im done now too.

[geauxforbroke]

@KyleAnthony I think your intentions with this thread were good, and it's just taken a bit of a turn.

Trust me when I say that everyone here (for the most part) really wants to see you succeed and reach your goals. You just have to make sure you understand what your goals are, and make sure you set yourself up for success in reaching them. Maybe the question you need to ask is "I'm willing to put in the work. Here's where I am in my game now, what is a realistic expectation for the next 12 months?". Guys like @iacas and @mvmac work with a lot of guys just like you that really want to set goals and achieve them. Let those guys help you set goals that make sense.

Once you understand what your goals are, you can start working towards them. Several members have offered some great advice throughout this thread. Just do yourself a favor and accept the advice. When I was younger, my dad took me to see a local pro a few times over the course of two or three years, and I was really resistant to change. I thought I had it figured out and I didn't need their help. It wasn't until I realize that she really wanted to help me and knew a hell of a lot more about the game than I did that I started to see real results. This website is full of people that really want to help you and know a hell of a lot about this game. Just make sure you are willing to take the advice.

I'm rooting for you to achieve whatever goals you set for yourself. You seem to have a desire to accomplish them and have the work ethic required. That's probably the best quality a golfer can have. I wish you all the best.