When is a green "clear?"

[number1hacker]

A "drive" refers to the first shot on any hole, irrespective of the club used.

Do you ever hear a commentator say "great drive" when a pro hits his "tee shot" on a par 3?

[David in FL]

Do you ever hear a commentator say "great drive" when a pro hits his "tee shot" on a par 3?

And that matters, because....?

[number1hacker]

I have never heard a tee shot on a par 3 being called a drive, on the telly or the course.

Excuse my ignorance but I am fairly new to the game.

[David in FL]

No problem. A drive is defined as the first shot on any given hole, whether the club used is a driver, or a wedge....

[Fourputt]

No problem. A drive is defined as the first shot on any given hole, whether the club used is a driver, or a wedge....

I've hit many a "drive" with a fairway wood or a long iron, even on what most consider driving holes.  I like to play the percentages.  Although I never owned a true driving iron, I did have a 2 iron way back when, and it was my go to club for a couple of tee shots on my home course.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

No problem. A drive is defined as the first shot on any given hole, whether the club used is a driver, or a wedge....

Sorry, but I am with @number1hacker on this one.

Quote:

Definition: The "drive" in golf is what starts any par-4 or par-5 hole. "Drive" refers to the first stroke played from the teeing ground on longer (as opposed to par-3) holes. The stroke is most often played with a driver , hence the term "drive," and almost always using a teed ball. A drive may be played with any club in the bag (although we don't recommend using a putter!), and 3-woods are also fairly common to use on drives. A golfer might even choose to drive with an iron if he or she is putting a premium on accuracy rather than distance.

http://golf.about.com/cs/golfterms/g/bldef_drive.htm

Quote:

Definition

When you are planning a par four or par five, the shot off the tee is called a drive.

http://www.sportsdefinitions.com/golf/Drive.html

And even in common parlance, if we say that someone drives the ball well, we all know they aren't talking about their iron shots on par 3s.

[David in FL]

I've hit driver on a par 3 and 5-iron on a par 5, both within the last month. I have no problem referring to both as "drives".

[Spyder]

An odd thing happened to me today.

As my friend and I walked onto the 2nd tee (137 yard par 3), we saw an older gentleman - a single-player - on the green. He putted out (without removing the pin), retrieved his ball, and then walked off the right-hand side of the green. That side of the 2nd green is obscured from the tee, as a large pine tree, small hillock, and bunker are all in front of the right-hand side of that green. The path to the 3rd tee is also to the right of the 2nd green.

My playing partner and I watched the old chap putt out and walk to the right of the green, waited a minute or so, and then hit our drives - two good shots - and we started walking to the green to hit our birdie putts.

Someone wasn't rejoicing, though. The single-player, who appeared on the green shouting and waving his putter around. Turned out he was playing two balls, and had played out his first ball before walking to the right fringe of the green to chip his second ball. He must have been walking towards the middle of the green as our tee-shots landed.

I've never "hit into" someone before in over 20 years of playing golf, and was a bit upset by all of this. My playing partner apologized and we all went on our way. Thinking about it afterwards, though, my mood has hardened slightly. I'm inclined to think that you play that second ball at your own risk. If you putt out and look like you're clearing the green, so long as the match behind allows adequate time for the green to clear, there is no more "due diligence" owed on that match's part. I never want to hurt anyone on a golf course, but is it really reasonable to have to anticipate that someone might be playing two balls, and allow extra time for a green to clear, accordingly?

Definitely no question of who was in the right here. If someone is playing two balls, they better not require you to wait at any point in time during that round. They should also be smart enough to play both balls "simultaneously" so as to finish the hole. Putting out only to go back to your second ball is just ridiculous, so you definitely did not do anything wrong.

[BuckeyeNut]

My 2 cents.......

Was the single following and waiting behind another group?  It's just a guess, but I am assuming he was.   If he was, then he has every right to play multiple balls providing he is keeping pace with that group and I can understand why he would be angry.  On the other hand, if he's playing two balls, he shouldn't hole them out separately like he was doing.  IE......he should chip both on the green if he missed the green, them putt both balls into the cup without replacing the pin and leaving the green.    When the pin is in, he should be done.

If he holed out, replaced the pin, and walked off to play his second ball onto the green, then he's a bit of a dumbazz and asking for trouble.   IMO.....Once the pin is replaced, what does he expect the following group to think?  He was within is right to play 2 balls, but he was a bit of an idiot for how he was doing it.   That's what I think.

[BuckeyeNut]

Definitely no question of who was in the right here. If someone is playing two balls, they better not require you to wait at any point in time during that round. They should also be smart enough to play both balls "simultaneously" so as to finish the hole. Putting out only to go back to your second ball is just ridiculous...............

I sort of disagree on the first point.   If he is behind a 4-some, all that is required that he keep pace with that group.   he shouldn't be forced to hurry up and putt out, and then wait even longer on the next tee as the group he is following waits to tee off.  So long as he is maintaining pace, he's OK taking extra time on the green.  IMO

I agree 100% with the 2nd point.......................

[ScouseJohnny]

Quote:

The "drive" in golf is what starts any par-4 or par-5 hole.

I can't agree with that distinction.

The R&A; clearly uses the term "drive" to describe the first stroke played on any hole, for example:

Quote:

29-2/1 Wrong Partners Drive for Both Sides in Foursome Match

Question: A and B are playing C and D in a foursome match. A and C drive off at a hole at which B and D should have driven. The error is then discovered. What is the ruling?

Answer: The side which drove first loses the hole under Rule 29-2.

Source: http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=29&subRuleNum;=2&decisionId;=ABEB3040-6865-4B94-ABB5-7ED5DD2922BA

Re: the advice from many posters about my hitting into the chap playing two balls the other day. I'm pleased that I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm more relieved that no-one was hurt. Funny thing was that after holding us up for another hole (whilst still playing two balls), he then let us through on the 4th tee (albeit grumpily). All very strange...

[ScouseJohnny]

Quote:

My 2 cents.......

Was the single following and waiting behind another group?  It's just a guess, but I am assuming he was.   If he was, then he has every right to play multiple balls providing he is keeping pace with that group and I can understand why he would be angry.  On the other hand, if he's playing two balls, he shouldn't hole them out separately like he was doing.  IE......he should chip both on the green if he missed the green, them putt both balls into the cup without replacing the pin and leaving the green.    When the pin is in, he should be done.

If he holed out, replaced the pin, and walked off to play his second ball onto the green, then he's a bit of a dumbazz and asking for trouble.   IMO.....Once the pin is replaced, what does he expect the following group to think?  He was within is right to play 2 balls, but he was a bit of an idiot for how he was doing it.   That's what I think.

It was the fact that he was lazy and putted out his first ball without pulling the pin that caused all the confusion. We wouldn't have driven if he'd wandered off the green without the pin being in the hole, because, I think, we'd have probably guessed that something was awry. He probably wasn't waiting on the two-ball in front, because when he let us through my playing partner and I never quite caught them, and we were playing "ready."

[turtleback]

I can't agree with that distinction.

The R&A; clearly uses the term "drive" to describe the first stroke played on any hole, for example:

Re: the advice from many posters about my hitting into the chap playing two balls the other day. I'm pleased that I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm more relieved that no-one was hurt. Funny thing was that after holding us up for another hole (whilst still playing two balls), he then let us through on the 4th tee (albeit grumpily). All very strange...

OTOH, Driving statistics do not include par 3 holes.

PS:  Everton or Liverpool?

[WUTiger]

Scouse,

It was one of those oddball situations. I'm a senior golfer, and I fear some of my fellow seniors think they own the course.  I wouldn't worry about it.

In the future, you might mention it to the pro in case Mr. Two Ball tries to cause you trouble. (Let the pro hear it from you first).

[graham57]

I have never heard a tee shot on a par 3 being called a drive, on the telly or the course.

Excuse my ignorance but I am fairly new to the game.

This side discussion has kind of lost me. The OP was seeking advice and other golfers' takes on his behaviour (which he received in many contributions). Now we're discussing semantics?? I am pretty sure everyone understands what every one else meant - so who needs to be right?

[mortato]

I'm not sure what else the OP could have done to ensure safe play. I'm surprised the gent playing 2 balls didn't agree it was his responsibility to ensure people playing behind him were aware he wasn't clear of the green. How long are you supposed to wait after seeing someone finish the hole? A minute seems sufficient. If I was playing 2 balls for whatever reason then I would resort to the usual method of removing the flag until I had completed the hole. That seems the best practice.

[vangator]

When someone walks off a green, they need to clear immediately. No score keeping, no putting clubs away. Clear out for the next group. Too bad you missed him. :-)

[k-troop]

Agreed that the OP was quite reasonable in assuming that when someone putts out and walks off a green, out of sight, they are done playing the hole. On another note, I absolutely hate it when people loiter in the impact zone after finishing a hole. I also hate it when folks hit as soon as I've left the putting surface as if they've never missed a green. Golfers are allowed a reasonable time to clear the landing area around a green, but they have an obligation to clear the green as swiftly as possible.