Correct Drop From a Bunker That Is GUR

[boil3rmak3r]

The course I play is putting proper drainage in their sand traps and new sand as well. They started last fall and finished 10 bunkers. As we speak, they are in the process of doing the other 28 bunkers (it could take a couple of months). Unlike last year, though, they are doing all 28 bunkers simultaneously. In other words, they are digging out all of these traps, then fixing the drainage in all the traps, and then will put sand in them. So, for a decent period of time, many of our traps will be played as GUR. Would relief from one of these fall under rule 25-1b(1)? Basically, relief would be within 1 club length from the nearest point of relief that is no closer to the hole? If this is the case, I assume if the nearest point of relief (which would be outside the gur bunker), could potentially be to the side of the bunker, thus taking the bunker completely out of play for your pitch shot. Also, I've still been posting all scores to GHIN. Is that ok?

[Rulesman]

If a bunker is declared to be GUR then it loses its status as a hazard and is simply Through the Green. As you say Rule 25-1b applies. As it it is an approved 'local rule' your score qualifies under the Rules of Golf.

[boil3rmak3r]

Thanks for confirming, Rulesman!

[Abreesch]

On 5/17/2014 at 4:34 PM, Rulesman said:

If a bunker is declared to be GUR then it loses its status as a hazard and is simply Through the Green. As you say Rule 25-1b applies. As it it is an approved 'local rule' your score qualifies under the Rules of Golf.

Is this still the case under the 2019 rules ?  If so, where can I find it ?

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Abreesch said:

Is this still the case under the 2019 rules ?  If so, where can I find it ?

A bunker which is marked entirely as GUR ("Ground Under Repair") (an ACC ("Abnormal Course Condition")) is in the general area. It loses its status as a bunker.

It's in the Definitions:

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=definitions

When a bunker is being repaired and the Committee defines the entire bunker as ground under repair, it is treated as part of the general area (which means it is not a bunker).

[Rulesman]

I don't know what the USGA's take is on this (as the handicapping authority in the US) but a couple of years ago England Golf decreed that if over 50% of bunkers are taken out of play then handicap scores cannot be returned.

[Asheville]

12 hours ago, Rulesman said:

I don't know what the USGA's take is on this (as the handicapping authority in the US) but a couple of years ago England Golf decreed that if over 50% of bunkers are taken out of play then handicap scores cannot be returned.

England Golf can seem an "ivory tower" at times. 😲

[Rulesman]

The principle being that the course no longer reflected the rated difficulty, scores returned in handicap qualifying competitions would possibly be unrealistic. Remember the CONGU handicap system is very different to the USGA system

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Rulesman said:

The principle being that the course no longer reflected the rated difficulty, scores returned in handicap qualifying competitions would possibly be unrealistic. Remember the CONGU handicap system is very different to the USGA system

For another eight or nine months… 😉

[Asheville]

2 hours ago, Rulesman said:

The principle being that the course no longer reflected the rated difficulty, scores returned in handicap qualifying competitions would possibly be unrealistic. Remember the CONGU handicap system is very different to the USGA system

 

"Principle" implies as underlying truth. Do you suppose England Golf were relying on some data?

[Rulesman]

Well the USGA rating system doesn't award 'difficulty points' to non existent bunkers.

[Rulesman]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

For another eight or nine months… 😉

Insiders are now suggesting that GB&I will not take the WHS on until late 2020. The IT systems infrastructure and completely new software for the central database to be used in all clubs is proving trickier than expected. I gather there is to be a trial run of the software to convert CONGU handicaps to WHS values in a few months time. It will calculate the historical records using the WHS formula but I suspect there is a problem with players who have little playing history. Nor am I sure that all courses will have been rated by end 2020. If there is no slope for a course one can't convert a handicap index to a playing handicap.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Rulesman

[Asheville]

5 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Well the USGA rating system doesn't award 'difficulty points' to non existent bunkers.

Surely some arithmetic is involved? Where did 50% come from?

[Rulesman]

11 hours ago, Asheville said:

Surely some arithmetic is involved? Where did 50% come from?

No idea. Where did the proximity of bunkers/penalty areas/OOB to the landing zone come from?

But perhaps it was a compromise between all or none. A course without bunkers is significantly easier than the same course with 60 bunkers

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

No idea. Where did the proximity of bunkers/penalty areas/OOB to the landing zone come from?

But perhaps it was a compromise between all or none. A course without bunkers is significantly easier than the same course with 60 bunkers

But a course with 3 bunkers, two of which are under repair, isn't significantly different than a course with no bunkers.

[Rulesman]

We don't see many of them in this neck of the woods