New green progression

[MS256]

I don't know if anybody else would be interested in seeing the progression of the greens we had to replant but I'll post a picture every few days. They are 8 days old now and starting to at least look a little green (instead of solid brown dead Bermuda).

They were planted back with bent grass.

[isukgolf]

Please count me among the interested ... are you allowing play on them?

[David in FL]

Cool. Keep us updated! When do you think you'll be open? Just as an aside, I'm curious. Why hasn't the course been rated? You can ask that it be, can't you?

[MS256]

Please count me among the interested ... are you allowing play on them?

Cool. Keep us updated! When do you think you'll be open?

Just as an aside, I'm curious. Why hasn't the course been rated? You can ask that it be, can't you?

The owner is thinking about allowing our Saturday group to play on them. They won't be very good but none of us care that much. All of us just like to play a little golf and have a little fun and we could do that in a cow pasture.

Probably be another week before halfway suitable for the rest of the pubic.

I don't know anything about rating procedure other than that the owners don't seem interested. I wish it was mostly just to see if my personal rating of 65 is close or not.

Plus I could get an official handicap without having to play other places (which is turning out to be rare this year)...Like never.

[stealthduffer]

Would be interested to know the back story on this?  I took a look at some of your other posts but didn't see a reference (if it's there please just point me in the right direction!).  Would also be interested, after they've had a chance to fully grow in and mature a little, how you compare the two types of grass.

Thanks

[MS256]

Would be interested to know the back story on this?  I took a look at some of your other posts but didn't see a reference (if it's there please just point me in the right direction!).  Would also be interested, after they've had a chance to fully grow in and mature a little, how you compare the two types of grass.

Thanks

Not much of a backstory other than that the winter completely killed all of the Bermuda on the greens and collars.

We put Bermuda in last year and before that the greens at that course were always bent grass.

From a player's prospective bent is impossible to beat when it's in good shape. The Bermuda greens last summer were as good as Bermuda can get. A little slower and a little more possibility of grain affecting a putt than bent (but many players would barely know the difference).

We are right on the borderline where Bermuda has a good chance of getting killed by cold and bent grass is a complete headache in the summer.

As it turned out, with one of the coldest winters in many years, going to Bermuda was a big mistake. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[stealthduffer]

Bent grass is great - but requires a lot of TLC especially when it gets hot or dry.  There is a local course in Virginia that had grand aspirations and put in bent tees, fairways and greens.  Unfortunately the city ran out of money to fund the course and it took a real beating during a couple of hot, dry years.  Making a bit of a comeback but still in rough shape.  Would like to say it was poor decision making but I can also say that the Shenandoah Valley also seems to be a transition zone - too hot for bent (with exposure to dry years) but slightly too cold for good, healthy bermuda growth.  On the east side of the mountains it is about 3* warmer which seems to make a lot of difference in turf selection.

Sorry to hear that you lost the greens but new ones look like they will be great!

[MS256]

Well this may turn into a soap opera. Today (the last I heard) we are scrapping the bent greens (that we already planted) and going with some kind of cold tolerant Bermuda sprigs.

I'll find out for sure what the game plan is tomorrow.

Looks like we'll be down a while. (???)

[skydog]

To me it sounds like your course issues stem from the superintendent and not mother nature. First off, I'm surprised to hear that the course had bent to begin with or was trying to go back to it; unless the course has boat loads of money to spend on water/fertilizer, etc. (like Augusta), that just seems like a recipe for disaster in the deep South. Even up here in Virginia only a handful of high $ clubs try to make bent work. The majority are all Bermurda. Secondly, even a cold winter like what we just had shouldn't have killed off the bermuda like that...I guess since it was more recently added the roots just weren't strong enough yet, but still, I think someone might not be doing their job right.

[wils5150]

To me it sounds like your course issues stem from the superintendent and not mother nature. First off, I'm surprised to hear that the course had bent to begin with or was trying to go back to it; unless the course has boat loads of money to spend on water/fertilizer, etc. (like Augusta), that just seems like a recipe for disaster in the deep South. Even up here in Virginia only a handful of high $ clubs try to make bent work. The majority are all Bermurda. Secondly, even a cold winter like what we just had shouldn't have killed off the bermuda like that...I guess since it was more recently added the roots just weren't strong enough yet, but still, I think someone might not be doing their job right.

lol blame the superintendent. First of we dont know what strain of bermuda they had to begin with. Older strains can be less hardy than the new ones. I am guessing the went with bent to get fast germination because it wasnt warm enough for bermuda. Correct me if I am wrong ms256. Mother nature is a fickle bitch at time and no superintendent of the amount of money will change that just look at all the damage up here in the Northeast.

[MS256]

To me it sounds like your course issues stem from the superintendent and not mother nature. First off, I'm surprised to hear that the course had bent to begin with or was trying to go back to it; unless the course has boat loads of money to spend on water/fertilizer, etc. (like Augusta), that just seems like a recipe for disaster in the deep South. Even up here in Virginia only a handful of high $ clubs try to make bent work. The majority are all Bermurda. Secondly, even a cold winter like what we just had shouldn't have killed off the bermuda like that...I guess since it was more recently added the roots just weren't strong enough yet, but still, I think someone might not be doing their job right.

lol blame the superintendent. First of we dont know what strain of bermuda they had to begin with. Older strains can be less hardy than the new ones. I am guessing the went with bent to get fast germination because it wasnt warm enough for bermuda. Correct me if I am wrong ms256. Mother nature is a fickle bitch at time and no superintendent of the amount of money will change that just look at all the damage up here in the Northeast.

Actually that course was bent grass for the last 20 years and always had the reputation of being some of the best greens consistently in north Alabama, thanks in no small part to the superintendent/owner.

He made the decision to go to Bermuda because he was tired of working himself to death with bent in the summer. We tilled the greens and put tift dwarf sprigs out and last summer the Bermuda greens were as good as Bermuda can get.

If any mistake was made it was making the decision of not spending the substantial money to buy covers for the greens.

@wil5150 is exactly right. The only chance of getting golfers on the golf course to pay the bills was to plant back with bent grass at least on one nine (which we did) and we are allowing some play to bring in some money.

Anyway...The plan as of right now is to continue with the bent on the front nine (which is coming along pretty well) and seed the back with a strand of Bermuda that the nursery says they are having luck with as far north as Nashville without covers.

I am also taking plugs from the one live green we have (the putting green) and plugging the greens on the back nine. Looks like the front could be fairly decent in a week or two and at least pay the bills and we will just have to see how soon we can get the back open.

Here are some pics of the plugs I cut from the putting green today and put on a back nine dead green.

I'll try to get a pic of how the bent greens on the front are coming along tomorrow. Needless to say I didn't have much time today.

[Lihu]

Actually that course was bent grass for the last 20 years and always had the reputation of being some of the best greens consistently in north Alabama, thanks in no small part to the superintendent/owner.

He made the decision to go to Bermuda because he was tired of working himself to death with bent in the summer. We tilled the greens and put tift dwarf sprigs out and last summer the Bermuda greens were as good as Bermuda can get.

If any mistake was made it was making the decision of not spending the substantial money to buy covers for the greens.

@wil5150 is exactly right. The only chance of getting golfers on the golf course to pay the bills was to plant back with bent grass at least on one nine (which we did) and we are allowing some play to bring in some money.

Anyway...The plan as of right now is to continue with the bent on the front nine (which is coming along pretty well) and seed the back with a strand of Bermuda that the nursery says they are having luck with as far north as Nashville without covers.

I am also taking plugs from the one live green we have (the putting green) and plugging the greens on the back nine. Looks like the front could be fairly decent in a week or two and at least pay the bills and we will just have to see how soon we can get the back open.

Here are some pics of the plugs I cut from the putting green today and put on a back nine dead green.

I'll try to get a pic of how the bent greens on the front are coming along tomorrow. Needless to say I didn't have much time today.

Is this normally how you grow new greens?

[MS256]

Is this normally how you grow new greens?

No. It's normally how you patch areas of greens but the nursery is committing highway robbery right now on the price of sprigs since courses are in trouble and don't have an out. The owner hung up on them when they quoted a price about four times what they charged last year. He said down around Mobile the price is still reasonable but that's a long way to go to get it. He still might end up going that route.

[Lihu]

No. It's normally how you patch areas of greens but the nursery is committing highway robbery right now on the price of sprigs since courses are in trouble and don't have an out. The owner hung up on them when they quoted a price about four times what they charged last year. He said down around Mobile the price is still reasonable but that's a long way to go to get it. He still might end up going that route.

All this work and expense is going to make me feel guilty about every divot I take from a fairway, or ball mark on a green. :-X

[wils5150]

No. It's normally how you patch areas of greens but the nursery is committing highway robbery right now on the price of sprigs since courses are in trouble and don't have an out. The owner hung up on them when they quoted a price about four times what they charged last year. He said down around Mobile the price is still reasonable but that's a long way to go to get it. He still might end up going that route.

Dont they have a machine you could run over the putting green that would produce sprigs? I wonder if you could do a deep verti-cut to get sprigs

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Most interesting thing going on the board right now. Thanks @MS256 I will be following.

[MS256]

Dont they have a machine you could run over the putting green that would produce sprigs? I wonder if you could do a deep verti-cut to get sprigs

I'm sure they have machines to get sprigs but I'm not sure exactly what they use or how they operate. Verti-cut might work but if I was doing it (with the equipment I have) I would use the tiller behind the tractor set to a very shallow depth.

Pretty sure I could get sprigs that look just like what we get from the nursery with only a tractor with a tiller on the back and a bucket on the front. Just chop up the top layer and load it. What I'm not sure of is how many greens I could cover from the putting green area. Maybe all of them???

Anyway...We put sod down on the walkway to the island green.

[wils5150]

I am not positive but I remember seeing somewhere a bushel for every 100 sqft