Being tall an advantage?

[iacas]

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing how being tall is still such an advantage. You just named multiple golfers with different swing planes who all excelled (or are currently excelling) at the sport. This appears to make your argument of taller golfers having a better swing plane somewhat moot when you consider that all different swing planes can produce good results.

I concur.

[brice]

Different winds, different elevation changes, different swings, different quality of strike etc.

Ohh I'm dumb. I was imagining a 290 carry that rolled out 80 yards lol

[colin007]

Ohh I'm dumb. I was imagining a 290 carry that rolled out 80 yards lol

well, to be fair, a lot of the 320 yard drives you see on tour every week are 290 carry with 30 yards roll on the firm, fast tour fairways.

[Lihu]

Ohh I'm dumb. I was imagining a 290 carry that rolled out 80 yards lol

You imagined correctly. He said his flat ground no wind not too hot days get him 300 yards carry . When he is not playing well, 290 when he's playing well 310+.

The 370 yard drive was downhill and downwind (Brookside Course 1, hole 4 blue tees), the ball took off like a rocket going into orbit. I might add that the people in front of us looked completely dumbfounded.

On hole 6, he drew the ball into the wind and the carry is over 320 yards, he missed it somewhere in the vicinity of 10 yards short. We could see where it splashed down, and actually saw the ball (very few people would/could hit a ball there, so we guessed it was his). If he hit it straight or a fade, it would have carried the water along the right side. He still made it to the green in 2 but incurred a water penalty.

BTW, 300 carry is really far. I imagine with a 120 swing speed that you pretty much carry the same distances. It's pretty impressive.

[natureboy]

And Yao Ming blows.

There's no way a guy that tall can swing a club the same way as an average height PGA player unless he has proportionally longer clubs. Does the USGA limit all clubs to maximum lengths?

I'm not sure I buy that a shorter player automatically swings faster through the impact zone due to shorter arms. If all is equal in fast twitch muscle ratio and body proportions then the taller player should be able to accelerate the body & hands with the same force or more. With driver then they are also swinging a proportionally shorter lever relative to their limbs & muscles, which possibly/probably offsets any center contact disadvantage due to their eyes being farther from the ball.

...unless you have someone Yao's height where the lever becomes so short relative to their height that it becomes too mismatched (weight / feel / lie angles). Look how much knee flex he needs to use just to sole the club. Yao should probably be swinging a club that short (relative to his body) with an upright plane almost like Michelle Wie's 'tabletop' putting stance.

[Lihu]

There's no way a guy that tall can swing a club the same way as an average height PGA player unless he has proportionally longer clubs. Does the USGA limit all clubs to maximum lengths?

I'm not sure I buy that a shorter player automatically swings faster through the impact zone due to shorter arms. If all is equal in fast twitch muscle ratio and body proportions then the taller player should be able to accelerate the body & hands with the same force or more. With driver then they are also swinging a proportionally shorter lever relative to their limbs & muscles, which possibly/probably offsets any center contact disadvantage due to their eyes being farther from the ball.

...unless you have someone Yao's height where the lever becomes so short relative to their height that it becomes too mismatched (weight / feel / lie angles). Look how much knee flex he needs to use just to sole the club. Yao should probably be swinging a club that short (relative to his body) with an upright plane almost like Michelle Wie's 'tabletop' putting stance.

What's amazing is that ball players like Barkley and Ming have great hand to eye coordination, so I think that part if the equation is out of the picture. Similarly they both have lots of fast twitch muscle.

I reason that the only reason it is not so easy for them is because they haven't been playing all that long. That and undersized clubs. I think clubs are limited to 48 inches,  http://www.usga.org/rule-books/rules-of-golf/appendix-ii/

[MS256]

There's no way a guy that tall can swing a club the same way as an average height PGA player unless he has proportionally longer clubs. Does the USGA limit all clubs to maximum lengths?

"Maximum length" is more than enough for him to have a set of clubs that fit him. The driver might be the only club where he couldn't have a club the same as anybody else in proportion to his body (and especially his wrist to floor measurement).

Since almost nobody uses maximum length on their driver (except long drive guys) that factor probably wouldn't even come into play on the driver. Last I read the average driver length on the PGA Tour was 44 1/2". May have changed a little since then but not much.

P.S. If his arms are long enough his WTF measurement may not even be as much different from an average person as one might think anyway.

[natureboy]

What's amazing is that ball players like Barkley and Ming have great hand to eye coordination, so I think that part if the equation is out of the picture. Similarly they both have lots of fast twitch muscle.

I reason that the only reason it is not so easy for them is because they haven't been playing all that long. That and undersized clubs. I think clubs are limited to 48 inches,  http://www.usga.org/rule-books/rules-of-golf/appendix-ii/

I think Barkley had more fast twitch in his prime than Yao. Yao was pretty athletic for his extreme height, but his court movement to my eye was more like Kevin McHale. Lebron on the other hand...

That club height rule will keep the game a bit more even for shorties like me, then. More awkwardness for very tall players offsets potential distance / power advantage as the clubs become too mismatched to their frames. I wonder if a fitting approach for a really tall player would be to use larger loft progressions and smaller length progressions to get similar yardage gaps with a slightly more comfortable shaft length - esp. at the shorter end of set.

I do agree it's clear that the total package of individual physique & abilities can certainly overcome what I see as an inherent advantage for being average height or a bit (not too much) above. I'm only 5'7",  so I have an admitted personal bias in viewing successful shorter (and also more slightly built like Paul Runyan and early 'bantam' Ben H) players as climbing a slightly steeper hill in the skill / technique / knowledge area to be competitive.

[Lihu]

I think Barkley had more fast twitch in his prime than Yao. Yao was pretty athletic for his extreme height, but his court movement to my eye was more like Kevin McHale. Lebron on the other hand...

That club height rule will keep the game a bit more even for shorties like me, then. More awkwardness for very tall players offsets potential distance / power advantage as the clubs become too mismatched to their frames. I wonder if a fitting approach for a really tall player would be to use larger loft progressions and smaller length progressions to get similar yardage gaps with a slightly more comfortable shaft length - esp. at the shorter end of set.

I do agree it's clear that the total package of individual physique & abilities can certainly overcome what I see as an inherent advantage for being average height or a bit (not too much) above. I'm only 5'7",  so I have an admitted personal bias in viewing successful shorter (and also more slightly built like Paul Runyan and early 'bantam' Ben H) players as climbing a slightly steeper hill in the skill / technique / knowledge area to be competitive.

I'm just excusing as to why these ex-ball players don't play golf very well. Not sure if there is an advantage or disadvantage to being tall or short. As I mentioned in earlier posts golfers seem to come in all shapes and sizes. Maybe some shorter golfers need to work harder at it? Maybe some shorter golfers pick it up right away and start shooting par within 2 years of picking it up. There are so many variables that no one can say for sure.

[colin007]

I'm just excusing as to why these ex-ball players don't play golf very well. Not sure if there is an advantage or disadvantage to being tall or short. As I mentioned in earlier posts golfers seem to come in all shapes and sizes. Maybe some shorter golfers need to work harder at it? Maybe some shorter golfers pick it up right away and start shooting par within 2 years of picking it up. There are so many variables that no one can say for sure.

i think 6-4 to 6-6 might be the ceiling by which taller guys need to stay under to remain somewhat coordinated golf-wise and still look like a normal sized person swinging a club ( i say this being 6-4 myself and not a great swing that looks like my 5-6 buddy).  look at Dustin Johnson.  hes 6-4, looks good swinging the club, not unnaturally hunched over.  you start approaching 6-6 and taller and things start to get a little out of whack.

[No Mulligans]

If you take it to the ridiculous extreme to illustrate a point.  Imagine trying to hit a ball by standing on a ledge above the ball and using an 80" long driver.  The further the distance one is away the harder it would be to find the sweet spot.

The taller you get the faster the club head speed and the harder it is to find the ball (all other things being equal).

[MS256]

If I could build my Frankenstein golfer he would be 6'2" with a long torso and arms that hang almost to his knees.

[Lihu]

If I could build my Frankenstein golfer he would be 6'2" with a long torso and arms that hang almost to his knees.

So, you guys are saying Michael Phelps would be a great golfer?

[MS256]

So, you guys are saying Michael Phelps would be a great golfer?

As bad as he appears to be now I actually do think he could have been a golfer if he had spent all of that pool time, and all of that devotion, and got the same top level coaching in golf.

[natureboy]

"Maximum length" is more than enough for him to have a set of clubs that fit him. The driver might be the only club where he couldn't have a club the same as anybody else in proportion to his body (and especially his wrist to floor measurement).

Since almost nobody uses maximum length on their driver (except long drive guys) that factor probably wouldn't even come into play on the driver. Last I read the average driver length on the PGA Tour was 44 1/2". May have changed a little since then but not much.

P.S. If his arms are long enough his WTF measurement may not even be as much different from an average person as one might think anyway.

I don't know about that. The chart below jibes with many other fitting charts. Note how for a 4" difference in WTF height only a 1" addition in club length is recommended. Trigonometry (sine=opposite/hypotenuse) on the other hand indicates a 4.6" difference in length to maintain the same 60* lie angle. I think these charts really serve manufacturers' needs by lumping a wide range of very tall heights into one bin. Doesn't mean you can't still play well with clubs that are a bit proportionally shorter.

Do taller folks statistically all have proportionally longer arms? I would have thought that they have the same statistical distribution of arm-length to height as average height folks (Michael Phelps being an outlier in arm length).

Given the chart, I would say really tall golfers have a disadvantage in terms of off-the shelf equipment. I am 3" under average height so it's easy for me to grip down on standard length clubs if I want. If I was over 6'1", I would invest in custom length clubs so that was one less adjustment I had to make.

[natureboy]

 

If you take it to the ridiculous extreme to illustrate a point.  Imagine trying to hit a ball by standing on a ledge above the ball and using an 80" long driver.  The further the distance one is away the harder it would be to find the sweet spot.  

 

The taller you get the faster the club head speed and the harder it is to find the ball (all other things being equal).

If it's really a big effect you could bend over more at the hips to bring your head closer to the ball and swing very upright. Theoretically, I would benefit from the same change, putting my less elevated eyes even closer to the ball. I doubt that would improve my ballstriking much, though.

[MS256]

I don't know about that. The chart below jibes with many other fitting charts. Note how for a 4" difference in WTF height only a 1" addition in club length is recommended. Trigonometry (sine=opposite/hypotenuse) on the other hand indicates a 4.6" difference in length to maintain the same 60* lie angle. I think these charts really serve manufacturers' needs by lumping a wide range of very tall heights into one bin. Doesn't mean you can't still play well with clubs that are a bit proportionally shorter.

Do taller folks statistically all have proportionally longer arms? I would have thought that they have the same statistical distribution of arm-length to height as average height folks.

Given the chart, I would say really tall golfers have a disadvantage in terms of off-the shelf equipment. I am 3" under average height so it's easy for me to grip down on standard length clubs if I want. If I was over 6'1", I would invest in custom length clubs so that was one less adjustment I had to make.

Who said anything about "off-the shelf equipment"? He could have clubs +5" or +6" longer than standard (if necessary) and still be within the rules for club length for every club in the bag except (like I said) for possibly the driver.

Tall people are just like everybody else. Some have arms that are long for their height and some have arms that are short for their height. My son and I are the same height and my WTF is 36" and his WTF is 33 1/2".

(He is the Missing Link).

[natureboy]

Who said anything about "off-the shelf equipment"? He could have clubs +5" or +6" longer than standard (if necessary) and still be within the rules for club length for every club in the bag except (like I said) for possibly the driver.

Tall people are just like everybody else. Some have arms that are long for their height and some have arms that are short for their height. My son and I are the same height and my WTF is 36" and his WTF is 33 1/2".

(He is the Missing Link).

I'm just surprised the standard fitting charts don't reflect the bigger theoretical 'ideal' spread in club lengths for different WTF measurements.

It seems that because of the max length limitation, a really tall player who goes with longer irons will run into a 'ceiling' in terms of the average 'ideal' progressions in club length which potentially affects the distance gapping - though probably less so with driver (Anthony Kim).

I guess as long as the taller player isn't bending too much to sole the proportionally shorter club then they would seem to have more control of the same length lever than a shorter player and more potential to accelerate it well with their longer limbs and higher (relative to the acceleration of gravity) club position at the top.