NHL Refereeing "Changes" in the Post-Season

[iacas]

Edit: Moved from the "warning track" thread.

Ok, I'll bite. Could you define or give an example of a "skill team"?

Teams with faster, higher skilled players. Not teams with slower, bulky guys who rely on more of a "clutch-and-grab" defensive game.

Datsyuk = skill player

Chara = clutch and grab

And I don't have a thing against big guys dishing out big HITS, or using their size to their advantage, but in the playoffs, the "big guys" AND the little guys all get away with a lot more clutching and grabbing. The skill players get less time and space… because the rules are enforced differently, not because suddenly teams are trying to play differently.

If you disagree, cool. We'll talk about it over a beer and you are probably likely to convince me otherwise. My viewership is admittedly limited to watching mostly one team and their opponents, but fortunately, that's been a lot of hockey games in the regular and post-seasons the past few years. :D

And it's not "clutch and grab" but it is different than how it would be called in the regular season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1pLedkcNyQ . Pierre calling it "old school" doesn't change the fact that it was illegal. Twice. :)

As for the warning track, are we talking NHL or amateur ice hockey? It would be a good thing in amateur hockey, both for players and officials. In the NHL it is totally unnecessary. The players at the NHL level have an unreal sense of positional awareness, and do not need a "warning track". In a majority of hits along the boards, players will use the boards to their advantage, to absorb the force of a hit. In the NHL, predatory open ice hits where the head is the principle point of contact are the most dangerous.

Thanks. I thought you might say that.

I agree that it could be useful in lower ranks, but once players are in college or even the elite junior leagues (or whatever the OHL is and better), then scrap it. Players can see the kickboards and stuff, too, if they're totally lost after getting spun around or something.

[TimATC]

Ok warning :offtopic: But I have to do it. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/76865/hockey-orange-warning-strip#post_1047886"] Teams with faster, higher skilled players. Not teams with slower, bulky guys who rely on more of a "clutch-and-grab" defensive game. Datsyuk = skill player Chara = clutch and grab [/quote] Those are players, not teams. You said that skill teams in the playoffs get hosed. Did you mean to say Sid gets hosed???:cry: Every team has both skilled and "clutch and grab" players. The dumb teams get hosed, the smart ones win cups......bad ones miss the playoffs....:~( [quote name="iacas" url="/t/76865/hockey-orange-warning-strip#post_1047886"] If you disagree, cool. We'll talk about it over a beer and you are probably likely to convince me otherwise. My viewership is admittedly limited to watching mostly one team and their opponents, but fortunately, that's been a lot of hockey games in the regular and post-seasons the past few years. :D And it's not "clutch and grab" but it is different than how it would be called in the regular season: [URL=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1pLedkcNyQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1pLedkcNyQ[/URL] . Pierre calling it "old school" doesn't change the fact that it was illegal. Twice. :) [/quote] What Sid did in that clip was a penalty, Stahl pushed him, Sid CROSSCHECKED in retaliation. I couldn't even tell if Moore hit him, but if he did it wasn't enough for a penalty.

[iacas]

Those are players, not teams. You said that skill teams in the playoffs get hosed. Did you mean to say Sid gets hosed??? Every team has both skilled and "clutch and grab" players. The dumb teams get hosed, the smart ones win cups......bad one miss the playoffs....

I disagree. :) And no, I don't just mean Crosby. I mean that some teams rely on "skill" more than "clutch and grab" while some teams are more built for the opposite.

It simply boils down to this, though: do you honestly feel that the refereeing is consistent from the regular season through to the playoffs? If so, do you support such a thing, and if so, why?

What Sid did in that clip was a penalty, Stahl pushed him, Sid CROSSCHECKED in retaliation. I couldn't even tell if Moore hit him, but if he did it wasn't enough for a penalty.

Staal crosschecked him in the back of the head first, Crosby cross-checked him in the torso, then Staal hacked his head/neck. Three penalties. All could/should have been called (though if the first had been called, the second and third probably don't happen).

P.S. If we get more than about two or three more posts on this, I'm making a new thread. It IS OT. :)

[TimATC]

Well, you are entitled to disagree, but you still haven't given an example of a "skill team". Pitt? LA? Boston? Chicago? I'll argue that ALL, even your beloved Pens have clutch and grab players (think Hal Gill in 2009 -24 playoff games and huge shutdown role) AND skilled players. The team that is smart in balancing their skill, while disrupting their opponents skill with physical play, will win. No, I don't feel that is the same in the regular season vs playoffs. No, I do not support such. I think the entire season should be called like the playoffs, let the boys play, and get rid of the instigator rule!! That's hockey! :beer: Oh yeah, how do I get a cool LSW badge on my posts??

[18rounds]

Not speaking for @iacas but would a good example be when my Blue Jackets played Pittsburg this year in the playoffs. The Penguins were a much more skilled team however we took them to game 5 in that series mostly by hitting them silly. Oh well it was a good run while it lasted. Maybe this year.

[TimATC]

Just because they have Sid and Malkin doesn't make them a "much more skilled team". Is Boston "more skilled" than Pitt? They had 8 more points, scored 12 more goals, and allowed 30 fewer goals against than Pitt, but most would consider them a "clutch and grab" team. The best teams in the NHL have a balance of both, Chicago, LA, and Boston all have it, PItt used to, Detroit used to. Many are close, few team can keep it for long once they do find that balance. It's not the marque players that make a team, it's the 3rd and 4th liners, the 5-6 defenseman that win Cups. My point is, to be a good team there must be a balance between skill and toughness. If you have that, then quality of officiating is minimized.

[iacas]

Just because they have Sid and Malkin doesn't make them a "much more skilled team". Is Boston "more skilled" than Pitt?

Tim, FWIW, I don't entirely disagree with the points you go on to make in this post. And you were responding to @18rounds but in case it needs to be said, I watch more than just one team. :)

I will say this, though: the fact that the third and fourth lines become so important during the playoffs is exactly why I don't particularly care for the refereeing shift from the regular season to the playoffs. Why should a team's bottom six become so important in the post-season because the refs let the top six get grabbed and mauled an order of magnitude more in the playoffs than they're used to?

[18rounds]

I understand what you are saying and I think some balance is needed. However, certain teams/coaches have a scheme that leans more toward skill/puck handling or more toward hitting. Hitchcock is a good example. When he coached the Jackets he would talk about playing a weighty game. These differences in schemes are the reason that when a new coach comes in the team usually shuffles players to get the skill set the coach needs.

[billchao]

I will say this, though: the fact that the third and fourth lines become so important during the playoffs is exactly why I don't particularly care for the refereeing shift from the regular season to the playoffs. Why should a team's bottom six become so important in the post-season because the refs let the top six get grabbed and mauled an order of magnitude more in the playoffs than they're used to?

It's asinine. Once the playoffs hit, they revert back to "old school hockey" mode. Why'd they bother making all those rule changes to get rid those types of infractions in the first place, then? I don't understand why the playoffs should change how the game is played.

Just pick one way or the other, I don't care which, but make it consistent.