Pete's Programme (Single Digit to Tour Player)

[Nosevi]

Will get back to talking about my golf, but have had a couple of weeks off at the end of a pretty long year. Just wanted to add to the above post regarding Brian Casey, one of my 'practice partners' who I've learned a huge amount from over the last 12 months. He's currently in his first European Tour event (Russian Open, believe it's being aired on your 'The Golf Channel'?) and has just made the cut. He needed a good back 9 and delivered: Weird to think I was playing him in a friendly Matchplay competition a couple of weeks ago. He won before you ask - we never play with handicaps though so that's not all that surprising. We don't use handicaps so I can see how far behind I still am. I've learned a great deal from him though - in the sim analysing his numbers compared to mine as well as having high speed video of his swing from every angle and a range of clubs (both inside and outside), around the practice green learning the art of getting up and down (last session he was looking at my pitching and it really helped) and on the course where I can see progress I've made towards his 'tour spec' game. It really is a useful thing to do as watching the tour pros on TV just doesn't tell you enough about where you are and how far you are behind in each area of the game. Anyway, just thought I'd share. In a way it doesn't really matter what he does in the final 2 rounds - he's made the cut in his first European Tour event and in my opinion that's pretty cool :-)

[RandallT]

Will get back to talking about my golf, but have had a couple of weeks off at the end of a pretty long year. Just wanted to add to the above post regarding Brian Casey, one of my 'practice partners' who I've learned a huge amount from over the last 12 months. He's currently in his first European Tour event (Russian Open, believe it's being aired on your 'The Golf Channel'?) and has just made the cut. He needed a good back 9 and delivered:

Weird to think I was playing him in a friendly Matchplay competition a couple of weeks ago. He won before you ask - we never play with handicaps though so that's not all that surprising. We don't use handicaps so I can see how far behind I still am. I've learned a great deal from him though - in the sim analysing his numbers compared to mine as well as having high speed video of his swing from every angle and a range of clubs (both inside and outside), around the practice green learning the art of getting up and down (last session he was looking at my pitching and it really helped) and on the course where I can see progress I've made towards his 'tour spec' game. It really is a useful thing to do as watching the tour pros on TV just doesn't tell you enough about where you are and how far you are behind in each area of the game.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. In a way it doesn't really matter what he does in the final 2 rounds - he's made the cut in his first European Tour event and in my opinion that's pretty cool

I believe he just accomplished "The Dan Plan's" goal.

That's great news. I'll look forward to see where he rises in OWGR after the weekend. Probably not a high point value event, and I'm not sure how high you need to place in these events to even get points--- but I imagine there's lots of jockeying around in the 500-1000 range of the world rankings.

[Nosevi]

I believe he just accomplished "The Dan Plan's" goal. :-D That's great news. I'll look forward to see where he rises in OWGR after the weekend. Probably not a high point value event, and I'm not sure how high you need to place in these events to even get points--- but I imagine there's lots of jockeying around in the 500-1000 range of the world rankings.

I think he more or less just did :) As you pointed out to me (I hadn't noticed before your email) before this event he was 946 in the Official World Golf Rankings following the event I watched him in last week. Some may say "946? That's way down!" but 946 out of every tour pro on the planet isn't all that bad IMO as he's only really just starting out. However you look at it, practising all aspects of the game with a guy of his ability is a massive boost to my programme both in terms of having a target and the help he's giving me. Without it, answering the question "How good do I need to be at driving/approach play/putting/chiping ect?" Is all guess work. With him 'on board' I know exactly how good I need to be.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

I believe he just accomplished "The Dan Plan's" goal.

That's great news. I'll look forward to see where he rises in OWGR after the weekend. Probably not a high point value event, and I'm not sure how high you need to place in these events to even get points--- but I imagine there's lots of jockeying around in the 500-1000 range of the world rankings.

I think he more or less just did :)

As you pointed out to me (I hadn't noticed before your email) before this event he was 946 in the Official World Golf Rankings following the event I watched him in last week. Some may say "946? That's way down!" but 946 out of every tour pro on the planet isn't all that bad IMO as he's only really just starting out. However you look at it, practising all aspects of the game with a guy of his ability is a massive boost to my programme both in terms of having a target and the help he's giving me. Without it, answering the question "How good do I need to be at driving/approach play/putting/chiping ect?" Is all guess work. With him 'on board' I know exactly how good I need to be.

Top 1000 golfers in the world is great. Thanks for sharing this. The real question is when are you going to caddy for him.

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/80287/petes-programme-single-digit-to-tour-player/324#post_1194824"]   [QUOTE name="RandallT" url="/t/80287/petes-programme-single-digit-to-tour-player/300#post_1194778"] I believe he just accomplished "The Dan Plan's" goal. :-D That's great news. I'll look forward to see where he rises in OWGR after the weekend. Probably not a high point value event, and I'm not sure how high you need to place in these events to even get points--- but I imagine there's lots of jockeying around in the 500-1000 range of the world rankings. [/QUOTE] I think he more or less just did :) As you pointed out to me (I hadn't noticed before your email) before this event he was 946 in the Official World Golf Rankings following the event I watched him in last week. Some may say "946? That's way down!" but 946 out of every tour pro on the planet isn't all that bad IMO as he's only really just starting out. However you look at it, practising all aspects of the game with a guy of his ability is a massive boost to my programme both in terms of having a target and the help he's giving me. Without it, answering the question "How good do I need to be at driving/approach play/putting/chiping ect?" Is all guess work. With him 'on board' I know exactly how good I need to be.[/QUOTE] Top 1000 golfers in the world is great. Thanks for sharing this. The real question is when are you going to caddy for him. :beer:

He has his own caddy but I've caddied for him in a few practice rounds. Really useful to do, quizzing him about how he's breaking the course down and deciding on his shots etc. I did that a couple of times before playing against him, really worthwhile :-)

[ChrisWev]

Bloody hell, this thread has picked up pace, kind of lost track!

It looks like you're progressing well Pete and the structured/ methodical stuff is working :) It's hard to tell with the HCP though being in the UK as it's so slow to react. One thing I noticed in your last round were the two doubles in the first three holes, and none after. Is this to do with not being warmed up, nervous or not focused do you think? The reason I ask is pretty much every single person I play with loses about 3 shots to their HCP over the first 4 holes (I don't play with sub 5's much though).

On your last round, after the 3rd hole you were +1 for 15 holes, and if your putting was bad as you say, that is a fantastic score. That's basically +1 level (for 15, averaged up) for 18 which is great in my opinion, so it's definitely in there. If your PPGIR aren't that great maybe it's not so much your putting, maybe you just need to get closer to the flag (as harsh as this sounds)? Taking a few more risks and missing a couple of greens slightly and getting up and down from there is still par, but yet you get a better chance of the birdies when you hit? I'm not sure how this works with strokes gained but I'm guessing that even if you hit the green and are 20-50 feet away (2  shots to hole 95% of the time, at a guess?) you might as well be on the outskirts as you can probably chip within 5 feet anyway?

On a side note, maybe you should do what I have done (to make up for the flawed UK system), basically count every round as a HCP round and count CSS/ SSS as -1/-2 for good weather and level for bad? I know you're analytical like me, so this might give you a more current HCP to assess your strokes gained against? Depends on your course though. It's rare for a scratch player to touch/break par at my course, even though it's ridiculously flat and not long. It's well protected but the winners in the club champs are always par or above par, some of the results in the medals are really high. The Stablefords are always 40 points plus though, but most of these are due to being given a poor handicap assessment. Nobody <12 ever gets 40+.

[Nosevi]

Bloody hell, this thread has picked up pace, kind of lost track! It looks like you're progressing well Pete and the structured/ methodical stuff is working :) It's hard to tell with the HCP though being in the UK as it's so slow to react. One thing I noticed in your last round were the two doubles in the first three holes, and none after. Is this to do with not being warmed up, nervous or not focused do you think? The reason I ask is pretty much every single person I play with loses about 3 shots to their HCP over the first 4 holes (I don't play with sub 5's much though). On your last round, after the 3rd hole you were +1 for 15 holes, and if your putting was bad as you say, that is a fantastic score. That's basically +1 level (for 15, averaged up) for 18 which is great in my opinion, so it's definitely in there. If your PPGIR aren't that great maybe it's not so much your putting, maybe you just need to get closer to the flag (as harsh as this sounds)? Taking a few more risks and missing a couple of greens slightly and getting up and down from there is still par, but yet you get a better chance of the birdies when you hit? I'm not sure how this works with strokes gained but I'm guessing that even if you hit the green and are 20-50 feet away (2  shots to hole 95% of the time, at a guess?) you might as well be on the outskirts as you can probably chip within 5 feet anyway? On a side note, maybe you should do what I have done (to make up for the flawed UK system), basically count every round as a HCP round and count CSS/ SSS as -1/-2 for good weather and level for bad? I know you're analytical like me, so this might give you a more current HCP to assess your strokes gained against? Depends on your course though. It's rare for a scratch player to touch/break par at my course, even though it's ridiculously flat and not long. It's well protected but the winners in the club champs are always par or above par, some of the results in the medals are really high. The Stablefords are always 40 points plus though, but most of these are due to being given a poor handicap assessment. Nobody <12 ever gets 40+.

Hi Chris. Regarding those 2 doubles at the start of that particular round, it was probably more to do with the fact it was the first time out having started to change my (see my swing thread if you're interested) and I had no idea where the ball would go. Added to that I was playing with Brian and was concious of not looking a total fool. On the 3rd tee we actually had a chat and he asked me what I was doing (he's seen me hit the ball well often enough) I explained about trying to change my swing and he said that was fine but here wasn't the place. He told me to totally forget the swing changes and just play golf. If they were there, fine, if not, fine, but don't try to fix my swing on the course. It went far better from then on. Putting wise, you're right in that I need to get closer to the pin. On my course we have some par 4s well over 400 yards (460, that sort of thing) but some shorter ones as well. On many holes I'm going in with a wedge but still not being as close to the hole as I'd like. Last year I worked on everything but mostly on long game with loads of work on driving. This coming year I really need to up my wedge play so I can start to benefit from that work off the tee. Handicap wise, the zero movement is because the comps I've entered this year were all matchplay for my club and as I'm guessing you know, these can't be used to adjust your handicap in the UK. I think I gained a lot from them (having team mates watching and having others rely on your score etc puts a certain level of pressure on) but next year I'll be looking at getting my handicap moving down which will mean playing in all the individual strokeplay competitions and probably giving up playing on the team in order to do this. I can't do both as I play/practice all week, all individual matches are at the weekend as are club matches and I have a young family so want to see them every once in a while. Playing for the club this year then individually next was always part of the plan. Year 1 was just about getting used to playing under a bit of pressure so jumping in with both feet and playing for the club seemed like the thing to do. Plan for year 2 is to use that experience and play as many qualifiers as possible and get my handicap moving down, reasonably rapidly with a bit of luck as I need it to be 2 or lower by year 3 which will be about entering some higher level amateur events in th UK, many of which require a handicap of 2 or lower. Year 4 will hopefully be about doing well in those higher level amateur events prior to turning pro. That's the plan anyway :-) Like most things in my plan it's a progression. I just need to keep looking at it and change the programme as I go along to ensure steady progess towards those goals. Right now my scoring average relative to SSS is about on track but I'll need to do more next year than last in order to take off less strokes.

[ChrisWev]

Bloody hell, a 460 par 4 would give me nightmares :( At best I would have to go 250 (including roll), 180 hybrid, pitch, putt, putt! that's 3-4 hard shots for someone like me!

Yeah, my gripe is with our type of golf clubs and HCP system, although the US one ain't great either. For me it's a big problem over here, it's like everyone likes to have an artificially high handicap so they can sandbag and score 45 points. People whinge when they get cut, when surely it's a good thing? 90% of the comps at clubs are Stableford, Matchplay, Scramble's, Greensomes, 4BBB etc. It's too much of an easy way out being able to shoot a 12 on a hole and just forget about it and bogey the next and everything is great.

Personally I dislike it (other than for a matchplay Ryder cup/ pick your team scenario), for me I want my handicap to be a low as I can physically get it, I couldn't care less about winning a bottle of wine on a Thursday night in a 4BBB.

Everyone should be accountable for their scores and made to putt out if playing for a prize, at least that time people can put 20 cards a year in, rather than the normal three or five or none.

There's old guys playing at my club that pretty much get 45 points every time in stableford, playing off about 20 for the last 10 years apparently, because they "can't make" the medal for their handicap, even though half of em are retired!

If I was you I would ignore your handicap and just play any format you can (other than BB) and just putt out everything, then just tot up your card against CSS/SSS and adjust your handicap on any full "normal" round. Personally I've used rounds where I go out on my own and "play honest" but for your level you need the rounds where people are watching, with the extra pressure etc.

Randall's SG SSheet will give you a cracking insight though, for the rounds that aren't competitive, but the way I see it, any rounds you're playing with these top guys is enough personal pressure as you can get?

Anyway, just change that 5.1, it's doesn't look like you're anywhere near that now, probably closer to scratch!

[Nosevi]

Bloody hell, a 460 par 4 would give me nightmares :( At best I would have to go 250 (including roll), 180 hybrid, pitch, putt, putt! that's 3-4 hard shots for someone like me! Yeah, my gripe is with our type of golf clubs and HCP system, although the US one ain't great either. For me it's a big problem over here, it's like everyone likes to have an artificially high handicap so they can sandbag and score 45 points. People whinge when they get cut, when surely it's a good thing? 90% of the comps at clubs are Stableford, Matchplay, Scramble's, Greensomes, 4BBB etc. It's too much of an easy way out being able to shoot a 12 on a hole and just forget about it and bogey the next and everything is great. Personally I dislike it (other than for a matchplay Ryder cup/ pick your team scenario), for me I want my handicap to be a low as I can physically get it, I couldn't care less about winning a bottle of wine on a Thursday night in a 4BBB.  Everyone should be accountable for their scores and made to putt out if playing for a prize, at least that time people can put 20 cards a year in, rather than the normal three or five or none. There's old guys playing at my club that pretty much get 45 points every time in stableford, playing off about 20 for the last 10 years apparently, because they "can't make" the medal for their handicap, even though half of em are retired! If I was you I would ignore your handicap and just play any format you can (other than BB) and just putt out everything, then just tot up your card against CSS/SSS and adjust your handicap on any full "normal" round. Personally I've used rounds where I go out on my own and "play honest" but for your level you need the rounds where people are watching, with the extra pressure etc. Randall's SG SSheet will give you a cracking insight though, for the rounds that aren't competitive, but the way I see it, any rounds you're playing with these top guys is enough personal pressure as you can get? Anyway, just change that 5.1, it's doesn't look like you're anywhere near that now, probably closer to scratch! :beer:

Regarding that particular hole, it is a tough one into wind. This is it: We play off the back of the tee boxes to try to stretch the course as much as possible which lengthens the hole by about 10 yards from the measured distance. What makes it fun is that if you can't carry the left hand fairway bunker (carry of about 250-260 yards) then you're bringing the right hand fairway bunker into play leaving a 200 yard shot from sand to the middle of the green. I've played it into a 45 mile an hour wind once - it was a hoot ...... Handicap: Me posting the 5.1 is just honesty - I am officially a 5.1 and don't want to deceive anyone. I suppose I could track where my handicap would be if every round counted or even work out what my handicap would be under the US system but if I post up that as my handicap I would be lying. I know where I am and that's what counts. Where it falls down is that I wouldn't be a 5.1 under the US system as all the golf I've played over the year would 'count'. Like your club, mine is heavily weighted towards 'fun' (deliberately in inverted commas) formats of the game, none of which effect your handicap. The competitions are generally for people to go have a social time and have fun rather than people who are serious about golf as a sport. There's no doubt that having my handicap posted, while being honest, is deceptive as it give people on here an inaccurate view of my current level. I've tried to dispel some of that by posting launch monitor data showing carry yardages, spin numbers, dispersion circles etc. I'll probably start posting Game Golf rounds as public rather than private next year (I use the system for training which is why I record as private but if you look on gamegolf it thinks my handicap is 0.3 based on the rounds I've played) which will give a better indication of where I am. All in all the best course of action may be to just delete my handicap from my profile - unlike the US system it give no indication of where I am. Thoughts? To me and my programme handicap is irrelevant other than in year 3 to get me into some higher level amateur events, all of which are played off scratch anyway. My goal afterall is to play golf without a handicap :-) It sounds daft to say it's irrelevant simply because the US system may not be perfect but it tracks where you are far better than ours which is more of a 'time served' type deal - you have to be playing at scratch level for a long time to get there (about 23 stroke play competitions shooting scratch every time to get from 5.1 to scratch I think I worked out). Because of this if you look back at the progress spreadsheet posted earlier you'll see I'm tracking scoring average over SSS rather than handicap. I like Randy's strokes gained spreadsheet a lot as well and will use it far more in year 2 than year 1. He was ironing out a few kinks in it over the year and now I think it's pretty much there. Last round I shot was showing me lose about 5 shots to the PGA pro baseline - 0.9 off the tee, 1 shot with my approach play, 2.3 in short game and 0.8 in putting: This exactly mirrors what I've found playing Brian - I've focused massively on long game over the past year and now need to put a little more work into my game a bit closer in. It'll be a focus for year 2, identified by Randy's strokes gained spreadsheet and confirmed by playing with guys like Brian. Year 2 starts on Monday. Can't wait!

[RandallT]

Re: Handicap. I think those following the programme know where your skills are. The self-declared handicap number here is fine either way, as the whole point of the thread is to define where you stand. Since it's your official handicap number, there's no deception (nor intent to deceive). But if you wanted to give a more "ballpark" number on your own initiative, I doubt anyone would fault you. I would just drop the topic from your mind, as you have lots of other fish to fry starting Monday .

Mr Casey is hanging in there. After starting with a double-bogey, he played even par the rest of the 3rd round. Even par overall for T46 at the moment. Must be quite an experience to travel to Moscow and perform that well. Must boost his confidence (and maybe yours!).

[Nosevi]

Re: Handicap. I think those following the programme know where your skills are. The self-declared handicap number here is fine either way, as the whole point of the thread is to define where you stand. Since it's your official handicap number, there's no deception (nor intent to deceive). But if you wanted to give a more "ballpark" number on your own initiative, I doubt anyone would fault you. I would just drop the topic from your mind, as you have lots of other fish to fry starting Monday :beer: . Mr Casey is hanging in there. After starting with a double-bogey, he played even par the rest of the 3rd round. Even par overall for T46 at the moment. Must be quite an experience to travel to Moscow and perform that well. Must boost his confidence (and maybe yours!).

Handicap - you're right. At the end of the day I know where I am it's just that our system is so daft it doesn't show it. As Chris said our problem here isn't vanity capping, in fact that's nigh on impossible to do as only competition scores count, it's sandbagging. Somtimes it's deliberate, sometimes just a function of the slow correction our system has so if you're improving you'll always be seen as a 'bandit'. Anyway, you're right, I'll put it to bed. I don't feel comfortable putting what I feel my handicap should be in my profile, even the 0.3 the Gamegolf calculates it to be so I'll leave it as 5.1. It's meaningless but I'll leave it there none the less. Regarding Brian, yep, you're right on both counts - it'll give him confidence I'm sure and for me it's a vindication of me linking up with him for help in my programme and to act as a benchmark. There are a few lower level tour pros around here but when you see him play you can just tell he's got something a little extra. Very early days in his career but you can tell he's going places.

[Nosevi]

Well that's year 1 ended, has any of it worked? Well my fairways hit percentage has gone from a fairly respectable 64.3% to 74% and at the same time my average carry on the launch monitor has gone from 241 yards to 276 yards. Fair to say it's becoming a strength of my game. My GIR has gone from 50% to 65% and my putts per GIR from 2.22 to 1.81. Overall scrambling hasn't changed a lot so far more work required there next year but the bottom line is scoring average has gone from 9 over SSS (basically what we call Course Rating) to 4.5 over SSS. Was aiming for 4 but overall I think year 1 has gone pretty well. Moving into year 2 I'll be continuing to work on the long game but really need to knuckle down around the green. In particular I need to work hard on hitting a target on the green from just off it; I need to be scoring a few more birdies after a good drive and making the most of being closer to the green even when I miss GIR. My 'pitching range' at home is ready to go with a mat down for when frozen ground or snow makes pitching practice at my club impossible so with a bit of luck hopefully I can see an improvement in that area come the spring. Another priority for next year will be fitness. I've made progress but going to tournaments to watch the pros in action (as well as posting vids for you guys and seeing myself :-) ) has shown me how much further I have to go. All round fitness needs to improve and that includes cardio and losing weight. To help even when it's blizzarding outside there's a new addition that's sneaked into the corner of the swing studio: So that's year 1 done and dusted. I've had a couple of weeks basically off (may have swung a club once or twice ....) and am ready to go again. :-)

[MacDutch]

Wish you good luck during your second year, Pete. Lots of birdies on your path!

[Lihu]

Cool stuff!

BTW, I noticed a little patch in your lawn that looks a little bit like a driving range mat.

[Nosevi]

Wish you good luck during your second year, Pete. Lots of birdies on your path!

Thanks :-) [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/80287/petes-programme-single-digit-to-tour-player/330#post_1195933"][QUOTE name="Nosevi" url="/t/80287/petes-programme-single-digit-to-tour-player/324#post_1195689"] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/131328/] [/URL][/QUOTE] Cool stuff! BTW, I noticed a little patch in your lawn that looks a little bit like a driving range mat. :whistle: [/quote] Thanks :-) And that's exactly what it is. When one of my local ranges was renewing their mats I got them to buy an extra one and bought it off them. It's a really heavy duty one. It's down so when the ground gets frozen I can still practice pitching. In the winter if it's a particularly cold snap they also sometimes close the ranges around me so I have been known to hit the odd ball into the field infront of my house as it's ploughed at that time of year....

[Nosevi]

And so year 2 begins - the view this morning from the steps leading to the room above the swing studio in the building I had built at the begining of this project. Great spot for a morning cuppa and to plan the day. Then a brisk walk in the countryside, home, breakfast and I'm ready for the off. Got to admit, sometimes when it's drizzling or sleeting and I'm out working on chipping or something I wonder what I'm doing but mornings like this more than make up for it. Taking it as a good omen for the year ahead :-)

[ChrisWev]

Well done for a good year Pete .

I've just got a decent mat too form Verde Sports, wish I had your field/ garden to go with it! I'll be shopping for a new house soon and pitching area is one of my priorities :)

[utrinqueparatus]

Pete, greetings

I have been fascinated by your postings that I have read over the past few months. Your commitment to the cause is inspiring. Keep the good work going. I have noticed from numerous postings that strength, power, fitness is an area that you are working on as part of your overall plan. If you like I could suggest a program that has assisted me in keeping as near to the power that I had having passed Pre Parachute Selection (P COMPANY) thirty plus years ago. I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you mentioned you had been RAF Reg so you know what I am talking about even if the septics on here do not!! Most of it is based around body weight exercises, the use of TRX straps and that old favourite a bicycle. I do not necessarily want to get into an in-depth discussion using this means but should you be interested would be happy to put forward some ideas and thoughts that have assisted me. To give you an idea I am 1 stone heavier than when I passed P Coy at age 21. That 1 stone is muscle not blubber. Happy to chat should you want. All the best.