Keep Stats

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by Stretch

What jumps out is the overwhelming importance of the long game (shots from over 100 yards) in differentiating scores. For example, if a low-handicap am had a top pro do all his putting and scrambling, he could expect to save 4.3 (2.2 putts + 1.4 shots around the green + 0.7 sand shots) strokes a round. But having the pro hit his drives and longer iron shots instead would reduce his average score by 9.3 strokes. The same holds for the different groups of amateurs -- the mid cappers give up 11.5 shots to the low cappers and 7.1 of these (62 percent) are in the long game. Putting is an important differentiator among the pros, but less so for average golfers, since everyone is going to have 12 or more tap-ins a round. So the guy shooting 66 and below is only 6.5 strokes better on the greens than the guy shooting over 100, but he's almost 25 strokes better from the tee box up to 100 yards out!

Fun stuff to think about.

Awesome info.  Thanks.

[Roblar]

Quote:

What jumps out is the overwhelming importance of the long game (shots from over 100 yards) in differentiating scores.

What's weird is that I seem to be a cross between Am2 and Am3 --- I putt more like Am3 and my long game is more like Am2.

I saw these stats a while back and have been working on my 5 & 7 irons quite a bit.  ....I guess I need to spend more time putting!

[GolfHippy]

I am concentrating on greenside stats a lot. I am not a big hitter so its conservative to the green and then get shots back greenside.

Re: Turtleback: I just got a GPS and am thinking about keeping another stat.

I would like to get a phone or something that would give me distance to the mid-green. I am terrible at guessing yardage. So any suggestion would be appreciated. I was looking at the Android phone especially, but have not bought anything yet, so any suggestions for any phone would be great.

I do not need the phone to do all the stats analysis as I have found a really good (free) bit of software that does all that. Loads of graphs which I like. Its called chartmygolf.com .

Ideally the phone would create some sort of file that could be loaded into my pc stats software. I do not know if that is possible.

[turtleback]

I thought about the phone route, but there were a couple of issues.  First of all, a smartphone usually requires a data plan, so even though the golf app might be really cheap compared to a GOS, you are then paying $30 per month for the data plan - which far outweighs the cost of a dedicated GPS.  Secondly, the smartphone apps may be illegal under USGA rules.

I just got the Expresso AG1 which is the only GPS I've seen that does both golf and road navigation.  And I got it for under $200.

But if you decide to go the phone route any smartphone will have apps available to do golf yardages.

[kobalt]

i have golf logix for my droid based phone. it keeps most stats you would want. fairways, gir, sand shots, chips, sand chips, putts and more.the other nice thing is that you have a record of all your rounds on the site. they compile all your rounds for average stats and give stats per round. it has been nice to see the trends both good and bad in my game. yardage has been within a yard or 2 of the handhelds that some friends have.

[Lofty Lefty]

I have kept stats on and off over the last few years.

I keep a couple stats a little differently.......

"Shots after Sand" - how many shots to hole out AFTER playing out a greenside bunker. An average of under 2 is good. For the last 5 rounds, my ave is 2.57

"Ball Striking" - not fairways/greens, but how many shots over regulation you play into the greens

Eg: You shoot say 85 on a par 72 with 32 putts. If you subtract your putts from your score, and then (par less 36) you get 85-32-36 = 17over for ball striking.

An easier way to work it out might be --- gross score (+13), minus putting score (-4) = +17

That tells me how well I hit the ball and managed the course on the day. A worthy stat, I feel. (My average for the last 5 rounds is 15.2)

[Double Bogey]

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

"Ball Striking" - not fairways/greens, but how many shots over regulation you play into the greens

Eg: You shoot say 85 on a par 72 with 32 putts. If you subtract your putts from your score, and then (par less 36) you get 85-32-36 = 17over for ball striking.

An easier way to work it out might be --- gross score (+13), minus putting score (-4) = +17

That tells me how well I hit the ball and managed the course on the day. A worthy stat, I feel. (My average for the last 5 rounds is 15.2)

This stat intrigues me.  Although I am not sure I fully understand it.  If I am reading it correctly, you keep this stat to see if it is your ball striking or putting that is hurting you that day.  But doesn't just looking at your total putts tell you that?  Please enlighten me.  Again, this stat really intrigues me...

[bunkerputt]

I haven't kept too many stats historically, but have started to in recent years and have always looked for something to instruct my practice sessions.  Generally, I just try to spend time on what frustrates me the most about my game, which I think is what a lot of people do.  That usually ends up being getting tee shots in play, short putts, and getting chips close.  Notably missing from that is scoring club accuracy, which is probably why the "frustration stat" method tends to only provide a piece of the puzzle.  At best, you want all the info you can so you can come up with a sensible game plan.  For example, here are the stats from my last 9 rounds stored on oobgolf.com.  Shit, I can't get this editor to let me enter text after the paste for some reason, so I'll just add my follow-up comments here instead and leave the stats at the bottom.  You'll see that I can probably gain 5-6 strokes per round by getting my current putts/hole back to my 2009 average of 1.74.  It's something I've been struggling with in the last year or so.  I also seem to hit more greens on par 5s, probably because I'm a fairly long hitter.  The things that are completely missing that I'd like to see are distance of first putt when GIR so I can get a feel for my approach shot accuracy.  My guess is it's putting me in 2-3 putt distance and adds some to my putting stat.  I'd also like to see some short game stuff, at a minimum scrambling % or distance left to hole after a short game shot.  Still looking for some better software....  I have an ipod if anyone has a suggestion.  I just hate trying them out because you have to enter so many scores over and over.

9.5 handicap

84 scoring avg.

Overall:

52.4% Fairway

1.99 Putts

51.9% GIR

Penalty Strokes

3.46 Score on Par 3s

5.44 Score on Par 5s

4.79 Score on Par 4s

61.1% GIR on Par 5s

47% GIR on Par 4s

58.3% GIR on Par 3s

8 Birdies

40 Pars

9 scores entered

[GolfHippy]

Thanks for the info kobalt . I do not really mind about the stats stuff as I am happy with my pc based stats program. It does so many stats I find something new each week. The main thing I am after is the gps yardage thing with the phone. Does golf logix do gps?

turtleback : I am not completely sure about smartphones etc, I have never had one before. Is a smartphone a phone with web access or something? What is a data plan? Are there any dataplan deals for light usage? How much usage would you need if you played golf on average once a week? Do you need your phone on all the time you are playing the round or just when you reach your ball?

Lofty Lefty :

"Shots after Sand": The program I use already does something called Greenside. The total number of shots around the green. I emailed them early this year about a similar idea to shots after sand. They are doing a major graphics overhaul in the Fall and are adding some more stats at the same time. Something call Greenside per Sand and Greenside per Chip are already confirmed stats to be included which is similar to the Shots after Sand you are recording but also includes the sand shot or chip shot in the total. Double-Bogie , I think the idea behind this stats is to see what event is the troublesome area. For example say your Greenside per Sand was averaging 2.8 but your Greenside per Chip was only 2.2. You would know that accuracy from a bunker was worse than accuracy from an off-green chip. The sand-save and scramble (up and downs) stats are good stats but these new stats go a little bit further.

Another addition they have confirmed, similar to "Ball Striking", is something they called GIR, GIR+1, GIR+2 etc. I have already started keeping these stats when I play in readiness. Since I am a bogie golfer this is going to be more meaningful to me.

I'll try and find the email they sent. I might have deleted it though.

[GolfHippy]

Bunkerputt : The things that are completely missing that I'd like to see are distance of first putt when GIR so I can get a feel for my approach shot accuracy.

That is an interesting stat. That would be useful. I would not want to guess the length though to the exact yardage. I am rubbish at guessing, that is why I want a gps phone. :) Maybe something more abstract. Lengths like bin-lid, flag length, medium, long, extra long. I could cope with that.

[kobalt]

the golf logix does give gps yardage, you can also get an aerial view of the hole. (great for doglegs on a new course)

the starts part you enter in after you finish each hole. it will record your whole round, you can measure distance of each shot and record the club. it allows you to track grass and sand chips around the green and will let you track tap in, short, medium, & long putt miis or make for a "putting outcome" stat.

stats :

GIR

# of putts

putting outcome

chips sand/grass

fairways hit

score

penalty strokes

it does a pretty good job

[GolfHippy]

Kobalt:

The golf logix does sound really good. I do like the idea of an aerial view of the hole. I am going to look into that. Thanks

Lofty Left + BunkerPutt:

I emailed my pc stats program people, here is their reply:

Quote:

Hi Peter,

Thanks for you email. We have had a flurry of people asking us to make the updates to the stats lately. I guess everyone is back playing golf with a high degree of regularity. So what we are going to try and do is get the new round input method up and running in the next few days. This is a prerequisite to the new stats presentation. Do not panic though, if you like the old method of input that will be there too. You can choose.

As previously stated the GIR, GIR+1 will be included. We had an Approach shot evaluation as well but I do like the method you describe. It is detailed but not obtrusive. We will likely have a Off Green, Long Putt, Mid Putt and Short Putt to describe the Approach.

As normal, the more people that contact us with their opinions, the more universal we can make the program. Please encourage your friends to use our Contact Page.

The downloadable version will not be ready until the Fall when the graphics overhaul is done. However, the good news is we have done a proof-of-concept test program and it is looking nice. The install takes less than a second. You can choose to install to the start menu, the desktop or both. The uninstall is just as easy; its in the Add-Remove Programs and also we have an option of right-clicking the program when it is running and an uninstall option is there. So that is looking good.

Thanks again for contacting us and thank you for the kind words about the program.

Jon

That sounds promising. I cannot believe this is all free. The contact page is:

http://www.chartmygolf.com/General/ContactUs.aspx

Please, please contact them, as their philosophy is the more people that ask them to do things the quicker it gets done.

[bunkerputt]

I use Linux, so no Silverlight support

Regarding smartphones, make sure that yours has GPS.  Some use cell tower triangulation which is less accurate, particularly in rural areas where there aren't a lot of towers.  For stat tracking purely, not having geo location data, an iPod with an apple app would work great.

[GolfHippy]

Re:...make sure that yours has GPS.  Some use cell tower triangulation

Thanks, this is really helpful. I am completely in the dark with mobiles. I have never had one, not even the old types. So thanks for this info.

Re: Linux.

I am not sure about this, I have a pc, but a guy at work has Linux and manages to get Silverlight working with something called Moonlight. I might be wrong about this. I'll ask him when I see him next.

[Lofty Lefty]

Originally Posted by Double Bogey

This stat intrigues me.  Although I am not sure I fully understand it.  If I am reading it correctly, you keep this stat to see if it is your ball striking or putting that is hurting you that day.  But doesn't just looking at your total putts tell you that?  Please enlighten me.  Again, this stat really intrigues me...

A par 4 is, by definition, a tee shot, an approach shot onto the green and two putts. So 2 shots + 2 putts. What I keep track of is how many extra 'shots' it takes me to reach the green.

It tells me how well I manage the course. So if I hit my drive into the trees, have to punch out and then put my 3rd on the green, my 'ballstriking' for that hole is +1 (1 over par) putts are irrelevent to this stat. Likewise if I hit a great drive up the middle, then miss the green with the second. So even though I've hit the fairway, I've taken one more shot than 'par' to reach the green.

You're almost right with why I keep it, in figuring out where I lose my shots. But if you shoot 85 with 32 putts, you may not realise that you're actually 17 over par for your 'ball striking/course management' when you've only shot +13 for the round. Just puts things in black and white. At the same time you might only hit 3 fairways for the day, but overall you've hit it pretty well, so this can be a more accurate/realistic account of your 'ball striking' - I think...

[GolfHippy]

Yes I agree Lofty Left, your Ballstriking stat is a good idea to keep. I have already started keeping this stat in readiness to pump into the software package I use for the imminent update. They emailed me a picture of the new round input system which caters for it. They do not call it Ballstriking, they call it GIR, GIR+1, GIR+2 etc. The GIR is useful to a point but if you are a bogie golfer the GIR+1 is more useful as a balance point.

[GolfHippy]

They do not seem to have a picture but if you look on the Tabs it says 'Score by Approach'.

I like the idea of the mouse hover to explain the stats. I am guessing GIR/FH is Greens in Regulation per Fairway Hit? What is a Greenside Save? Fairway Bunker Save?

I like the 3 moving average charts on the same page and we can choose what stats to put on them. They say 25+ choices of stats.