I've had it with guns

[kpaulhus]

Just now, chspeed said:

You may be correct. I should educate myself more on the numbers. Regardless, I find it implausible that a crime like the one today in California could be committed with a handgun. I know that most gun deaths are not with automatic weapons, but with handguns. I realize that outlawing bigger guns may have an effect on these media-friendly crimes and not on everyday accidents. But something has to change. We have to start somewhere.

You do realize they make 30 round magazines for handguns? 

[Chris E]

2 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

In 2010 the UK had a gun death rate of .26 per 100,000 [here]; in the US in 2013, we had a gun death rate of 10.5 per 100,000. [here]

The US has less than 5% of the world's population, and accounts for 31% of it's mass shootings. [here]

 

Yeah, but if we didn't have guns then our homicide rate would go higher due to death by rolling pin, crescent wrench, wiffle ball bat, etc. These gun nuts crack me up with their twisted logic, though my humor is tempered because they are so pathetic. 

[CoachB25]

chspeed,I hope you never need a gun to protect your family or yourself.  I grew up in a bad place and have been in dozens of fights.  Unfortunately, as I grew up, others turned to knives and guns and so, I've been stabbed and somehow avoided getting shot.  I have had to use my guns several times to protect myself and my family.  Along with having been stabbed, I was almost beaten to death two different times.  One of which where I was worked over with a baseball bat and pretty much left for dead.  chspeed, do you know what it is like to regain consciousness and realize your teeth are all knocked out of your mouth and you can't walk or crawl to get help?  Do you know what it is like to have been beaten so badly by four guys that you tell yourself that if you don't get up and run, you are dead?  chspeed, do you know what it is like to have a guy make a comment on social media that he is going to kill several people and their families and have law enforcement contact you and tell you that a crazy man is out there saying he is going to kill you?  That guy is in prison now after the FBI finally tracked him down.  To say I am an armed camp is an understatement.  chspeed, do you know what it is like to get a cellphone call from your wife, who is out in the barn, telling you there is a guy in the barn and she needs help?  Believe me, that guy's life will never be the same again. The little buddy I took along that day has an extended clip and will/did rock and roll.  

You must live in Utopia. I don't.  I could tell you who my family is but they might scare you.  There are books written about my family and believe me, what I have to protect my family is minuscule in comparison to what they have.  You would really hate us!

Now, after my rant, I learned to shoot at age 7 in a gun course.  I am in favor of anyone getting a weapon having to take a gun course.  I am in favor of more in depth background checks and longer periods of time waiting to get a weapon. What I might call a "cooling off period" for those that might be making an emotional purchase.  Still, I am a major gun advocate and know first hand how firearms can save lives. 

[jbishop15]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

People don't hunt with AK-47s. The AK-47 is a cheap, semi-auto or automatic weapon (automatic weapons have been illegal for a loooong time) that's not even very accurate.

See @saevel25's post above. But I see you've added "gun-related crimes."

It leads to rampant stupidity and the ignoring of facts. Like saying "think of the children!" and "do you need to hunt with an AK-47?"

He said violent crime, originally.

I don't catch your meaning (not meant to be snarky/sarcastic)

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, chspeed said:

You may be correct. I should educate myself more on the numbers. Regardless, I find it implausible that a crime like the one today in California could be committed with a handgun. I know that most gun deaths are not with automatic weapons, but with handguns. I realize that outlawing bigger guns may have an effect on these media-friendly crimes and not on everyday accidents. But something has to change. We have to start somewhere.

Again, virtually no deaths outside of the military are the result of automatic weapons. They've been illegal for a loooooong time. A long time.

2 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

You do realize they make 30 round magazines for handguns? 

Darn facts… always getting in the way.

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Yes, it's people who kill people.  But guns make it easier for people to kill.  Much easier.  Let's not forget accidental death by kids getting their hand on their parents guns.  Guns make it easier for suicide, too.

You do realize that kids accidentally shooting themselves with their parents guns is pretty rare, right? More kids drown in their pools than shoot themselves with their parents' guns.

People who commit suicide with guns are highly motivated to kill themselves.

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

As for needing gun to protect their family members, I lived for 53 years now and never encountered an occasion that I would have to use a gun to protect loved ones.   However, I ran into many instances where I would have used a gun needlessly if I had one nearby.

What a ridiculous statement.

[Mr. Desmond]

39 minutes ago, Chris E said:

So, what do you suggest in terms of laws, to get rid of all of the guns already out in society? Just passing laws going forward won't resolve that.

 

In 1996, Australia managed a massive buyback for the size of their country. We'd really have to have a masssive, massive buyback, and then sell the guns to third world countries so they can ... (joking)

Edited December 3, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[chspeed]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

He said violent crime, originally.

I corrected it, I was emotional.

 

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

People don't hunt with AK-47s. The AK-47 is a cheap, semi-auto or automatic weapon (automatic weapons have been illegal for a loooong time) that's not even very accurate.

I'm obviously not a gun expert. You know that that's not the point.

 

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

It leads to rampant stupidity and the ignoring of facts. Like saying "think of the children!" and "do you need to hunt with an AK-47?"

I don't want to sound patronizing, but you're smarter than this.

[rkim291968]

3 minutes ago, Chris E said:

Yeah, but if we didn't have guns then our homicide rate would go higher due to death by rolling pin, crescent wrench, wiffle ball bat, etc. These gun nuts crack me up with their twisted logic, though my humor is tempered because they are so pathetic. 

You forgot golf clubs.  Sand wedge can make a dent on one's head. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

I don't catch your meaning (not meant to be snarky/sarcastic)

He said violent crime, not gun crime.

Outlawing guns not only doesn't stop gun crimes from occurring, but may lead to an increase in violent crimes (because criminals don't really have to fear that the person they're attacking, robbing, etc. is armed).

2 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I corrected it, I was emotional.

It's still a valid point. See just above.

2 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I'm obviously not a gun expert. You know that that's not the point.

Uhhhh, then stop talking about guns.

2 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I don't want to sound patronizing, but you're smarter than this.

Please stop making ridiculous statements, and I won't have to make fun of them.

You do yourself no favors by saying stuff about hunting with AK-47s and appealing to the emotional "think of the children."

[Chris E]

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

You forgot golf clubs.  Sand wedge can make a dent on one's head. 

I thought those were only used to induce smashing SUVs into trees, and derailing careers much to the chagrin of the forum fanboys. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Chris E

[rkim291968]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

You do realize that kids accidentally shooting themselves with their parents guns is pretty rare, right? More kids drown in their pools than shoot themselves with their parents' guns.

People who commit suicide with guns are highly motivated to kill themselves.

What a ridiculous statement.

 

You do realize that even 10, 100 deaths matter to those who lose their children to guns, right?

You do realize that suicide by guns is typically 100% successful as opposed to other means, right?

I will ignore your "ridiculous statement" comment.  I or others can say the same thing about your statement.   That kind of comment does not foster good discussion.

[jbishop15]

Just now, iacas said:

He said violent crime, not gun crime.

Outlawing guns not only doesn't stop gun crimes from occurring, but may lead to an increase in violent crimes (because criminals don't really have to fear that the person they're attacking, robbing, etc. is armed).

Who? Matt? or chspeed? 

I haven't seen any evidence that suggest violent crime has gone up in place of gun crime. Violent crime (defined differently in the US and UK) has been falling rapidly since the mid-1990s.

[chspeed]

9 minutes ago, CoachB25 said:

You must live in Utopia. I don't.

Not that this is really relevant, but I don't live in Utopia. I was born in Israel, had a large percentage of my family killed by Nazis and in other wars, grew up in New York City in the 70's, have been mugged at gunpoint, beaten for no reason, etc.

I'm sorry to hear about your past experiences.

9 minutes ago, CoachB25 said:

I am in favor of more in depth background checks and longer periods of time waiting to get a weapon.

I think that makes sense. I don't have a problem with people being gun advocates. That's not what I was saying or meant to convey. I think we all agree, if we take a minute, that things need to change.

Edited December 3, 2015 by chspeed

[rkim291968]

2 minutes ago, Chris E said:

I thought those were only used to induce smashing SUVs into trees, and derailing careers much to the chagrin of the forum fanboys. 

Imagine if Tiger's ex-wife had a gun instead of a Nike driver. 

[chspeed]

14 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

You do realize they make 30 round magazines for handguns? 

No I didn't. I'm not a gun expert. I hope I never run into one of those!

[kpaulhus]

 

Just now, rkim291968 said:

You do realize that suicide by guns is typically 100% successful as opposed to other means, right?

If someone intends to commit the extremely selfish act of suicide then they have decided to end their life. Jumping off a bridge or taking pills or slitting your wrists only prolongs what they're intending to do. 

The kid that played o-line next to me in highschool football shot himself in the head at age 17. Nobody knows why. 

Im from Tampa where people constantly jump off the skyway bridge. When they hit the water, if they don't die instantly from impact, they drown since all of their bones are broken and likely can't swim. I think drowning in pain from just slamming into water from 50 stories up, sounds a lot worse than ending it with a gun. 

[chspeed]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Uhhhh, then stop talking about guns.

Really?

[Chris E]

4 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Imagine if Tiger's ex-wife had a gun instead of a Nike driver. 

Then according to saevel25 logic then he would have probably won 5 more majors by now if she would have had a gun! It all makes sense now.