Brexit - Leave or Remain

[Silent]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

People here voted for Obama, but that doesn't mean everyone that voted for Obama wants Syrian refugees to flood into the country.  The next step might be to put pressure on UK leaders to stop allowing refugees into the country.  

My understanding is that Sweden has denied 80,000 refugees entry into the country and is taking heat from the EU for doing so because it places greater pressure on other countries to take them.  

I understand that; point is that it has little to do with EU. Those refugees will still be at British borders, and people who were elected (or appointed by the elected) will still decide to let a certain amount in. A lot of people seem to think this is the end of immigration in GB. Believe me, they couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Abu3baid]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

What are you basing that on?  

Taking on all the refugees has had a major negative impact on all of the countries.  Sweden is struggling to survive after the influx of refugees and migrants.  The entry of all the migrants has stressed their infrastructure to the point where there isn't enough housing, schools, teachers, unemployment and welfare.   The impact is likely going to result in tax increases which will lead more people to want Sweden to follow the UK and exit the EU as well.  

 

UK is not Sweden, and the fact is that GB has had some of the lower numbers around.

Quote

There are an estimated 126,000 refugees living in the UK. That's just 0.19 per cent of the total population(64.1 million people).

Yeah, those .19 percent are going to crush the economy?  You know what will crush their economy? When they stop having access to the free EU market because they just shot themselves in the foot!  When they have to increase taxes; when they have to now spend money to just figure out what the hell they are going to do once they file the article 50..

Anyway, it stands to reason that these countries are economically stronger together than apart.  They can negotiate better trading deals with countries, ect.

And this.

Quote

seekers came to the UK in 2015?

The UK received 38,878 asylum applications (including dependents). 

This was less than Germany (431,000), Sweden (163,000), and Hungary (163,000).

Just 45 per cent of cases were granted asylum and allowed to stay once their cases had been fully concluded.

Many are initially refused because it is difficult to provide the evidence needed to meet the strict criteria of a refugee. 

British Red Cross

 

[Gunther]

4 minutes ago, Silent said:

I understand that; point is that it has little to do with EU. Those refugees will still be at British borders, and people who were elected (or appointed by the elected) will still decide to let a certain amount in. A lot of people seem to think this is the end of immigration in GB. Believe me, they couldn't be further from the truth.

 

You are correct because Brit politicians are still socialist one-worlders, by and large.  The gentry needs to start picking those guys off from election to election or London will end up like Paris and Brussels.  It's really almost as bad now. We'll see how dedicated and powerful that 51.9% truly is.  I suspect not very.

[Abu3baid]

9 minutes ago, Silent said:

I understand that; point is that it has little to do with EU. Those refugees will still be at British borders, and people who were elected (or appointed by the elected) will still decide to let a certain amount in. A lot of people seem to think this is the end of immigration in GB. Believe me, they couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Bigotry rearing its ugly head.  Wow.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Silent said:

Remember that the Puritans were kicked out of Britain as well for their religious differences back in the 1600s. British are a very peculiar and particular people. 

The comment about a homeless man calling what I assume to be an immigrant businessman a "Paki c*nt in a suit" unfortunately epitomizes the majority culture. I lived in Cambridge for a year about 30 years ago, and my mom told me not to expect to be treated nicely by anyone (her wording was a bit stronger), and to be very pleasantly surprised or suspicious if I was treated well. 

Apparently that attitude has changed quite a bit in the last 30 years, at least 48% would be okay with me living there.

 

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

You are correct because Brit politicians are still socialist one-worlders, by and large.  The gentry needs to start picking those guys off from election to election or London will end up like Paris and Brussels.  It's really almost as bad now. We'll see how dedicated and powerful that 51.9% truly is.  I suspect not very.

I suspect you are correct.

[RandallT]

6+ minutes of the "Leave" argument here in this video. Near the 4:00 mark, he calls them out as bureaucrats who've never held a "proper" job in their lives or worked in business/trade/or created a job (and gets pushback from the chairman of the meeting)! 

Quote of the speech: "When I came here 17 years ago and I said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you laughed at me. You're not laughing now, are you?" 

Whatever else we can say about Farage, he speaks clearly and forcefully about what he is saying. Whew.

He says that if the EU cuts off their nose to spite their face and refuses to work with Britain, then the result would be worse for the EU than for Britain (and gets some boos). Then he proceeds to push for a fair deal regarding tariffs, so that we can all go off and prosper. 

 

 

[Abu3baid]

54 minutes ago, RandallT said:

6+ minutes of the "Leave" argument here in this video. Near the 4:00 mark, he calls them out as bureaucrats who've never held a "proper" job in their lives or worked in business/trade/or created a job (and gets pushback from the chairman of the meeting)! 

Quote of the speech: "When I came here 17 years ago and I said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you laughed at me. You're not laughing now, are you?" 

Whatever else we can say about Farage, he speaks clearly and forcefully about what he is saying. Whew.

He says that if the EU cuts off their nose to spite their face and refuses to work with Britain, then the result would be worse for the EU than for Britain (and gets some boos). Then he proceeds to push for a fair deal regarding tariffs, so that we can all go off and prosper. 

 

 

Wow.. He has really gone off the deep end now..  His "global ambitions" huh?  I think this speech will not serve him or his country in the end.

Clearly threatening everyone can't be a good move.

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, RandallT said:

6+ minutes of the "Leave" argument here in this video. Near the 4:00 mark, he calls them out as bureaucrats who've never held a "proper" job in their lives or worked in business/trade/or created a job (and gets pushback from the chairman of the meeting)! 

Quote of the speech: "When I came here 17 years ago and I said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you laughed at me. You're not laughing now, are you?" 

Whatever else we can say about Farage, he speaks clearly and forcefully about what he is saying. Whew.

He says that if the EU cuts off their nose to spite their face and refuses to work with Britain, then the result would be worse for the EU than for Britain (and gets some boos). Then he proceeds to push for a fair deal regarding tariffs, so that we can all go off and prosper. 

 

 

I'm a fan or Mr. Farage the truth hurts sometimes.

[saevel25]

19 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I'm a fan or Mr. Farage the truth hurts sometimes.

Did you see the interview where he was hammered for previously supporting the ads that 350 million Euros a week will be given back to the Britain's health system? 

Now he's distancing himself from extreme comments made by the "leave" campaign. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

A bit more on the economic impact, 

"In fact, independent and respected Institute for Fiscal Studies has said the net effect of leaving the EU would be for a £36 billion black hole in the public finances to open during the spending period as a result of lower growth and tax revenue."

The truth hurts when it's actually truth being spoken. False, and or exaggerated claims can hurt more, like when an entire country that voted on emotion versus logic?  

[Elmer]

25 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I'm a fan or Mr. Farage the truth hurts sometimes.

Except when he is simply shoveling a bunch of BS
 

or a little more indepth

I doubt you will watch either, You are blinded by Farage & Johnson's rhetoric which is the British version of Trump!

[newtogolf]

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Did you see the interview where he was hammered for previously supporting the ads that 350 million Euros a week will be given back to the Britain's health system? 

Now he's distancing himself from extreme comments made by the "leave" campaign. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

A bit more on the economic impact, 

"In fact, independent and respected Institute for Fiscal Studies has said the net effect of leaving the EU would be for a £36 billion black hole in the public finances to open during the spending period as a result of lower growth and tax revenue."

The truth hurts when it's actually truth being spoken. False, and or exaggerated claims can hurt more, like when an entire country that voted on emotion versus logic?  

Truth I was referring to;

Quote

calls them out as bureaucrats who've never held a "proper" job in their lives or worked in business/trade/or created a job

Most politicians have no clue how to run a business or create jobs.  

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Except when he is simply shoveling a bunch of BS
 

or a little more indepth

I doubt you will watch either, You are blinded by Farage & Johnson's rhetoric which is the British version of Trump!

I don't get my news from HBO, sorry.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

Truth I was referring to;

Most politicians have no clue how to run a business or create jobs.  

If the government was a business then I would agree with you.

Spoiler

Businesses are not in the business of creating jobs, that is a byproduct. In a lot of cases businesses don't want to expand because they can't meet the demand even if they have the revenue to do so. When people say, "Well if the government was a business they would have went under years ago". Well guess what, government isn't a business. I am not sure it should be ran as one. 

 

[Abu3baid]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Truth I was referring to;

Most politicians have no clue how to run a business or create jobs.  

I don't get my news from HBO, sorry.

True, you don't need to get your news from HBO, but if you wanted to silence the critics you could watch and rebuttal what he says.. I've watched and can't see anything but the truth being told plus some humor in between.

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, Abu3baid said:

True, you don't need to get your news from HBO, but if you wanted to silence the critics you could watch and rebuttal what he says.. I've watched and can't see anything but the truth being told plus some humor in between.

I don't want to silence anyone.  I have my opinion, you and others have yours.  HBO isn't a real news outlet and Oliver is as much of a news reporter as Rush Limbaugh. 

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, Elmer said:

Except when he is simply shoveling a bunch of BS
 

or a little more indepth

I doubt you will watch either, You are blinded by Farage & Johnson's rhetoric which is the British version of Trump!

Okay, from the beginning of time, the best comedians are from the UK***.

This might be one of the few things we can agree are absolutely well deserved and funny.

 

 

***I was barely able to write this post, RFLOL.

 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

8 hours ago, saevel25 said:

If the government was a business then I would agree with you.

  Reveal hidden contents

Businesses are not in the business of creating jobs, that is a byproduct. In a lot of cases businesses don't want to expand because they can't meet the demand even if they have the revenue to do so. When people say, "Well if the government was a business they would have went under years ago". Well guess what, government isn't a business. I am not sure it should be ran as one. 

 

I've replied previously in this thread, but decided to skip to the end,

Unfortunately, the government is a business! It is about, or should be about, the people's business! Safeguarding the nation, building and maintaining infrastructure, and ensuring the opportunity to excel.

Viewing your hidden content, governmental expansion, in both influence and numbers employed by it, renders your argument null and void!

I do agree with your point that businesses do NOT exist to create jobs. That is one of the biggest economics myths that have ever been created. Businesses exist to make money for the owners of those businesses!

7 hours ago, newtogolf said:

I don't want to silence anyone.  I have my opinion, you and others have yours.  HBO isn't a real news outlet and Oliver is as much of a news reporter as Rush Limbaugh. 

I don't know this Oliver guy, but Rush is a wonderful news reporter! He puts their clips, in their own words, right out there on his airwaves, and then proceeds to dissect them wittily, factually, surgically, and microscopically. In other words, he cuts their guts out and turns them into hash!

Much of the hand wringing, and "sturm und drang", over Brexit comes from the fact that the cognoscenti, the literati, the illumined, the intelligentsia, the media, the leadership, the so called "smart ones", NEVER SAW IT COMING!!! They were blindsided!

Since they consider themselves smarter than everyone else, and of the elite, they have a hard time understanding "regular" people and how they feel. And however regular people feel must be wrong, since it's not how they feel!

This reminds me of the Inquisition. The left is the new church, and any thought counter to theirs is in error, and subject to punishment.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Buckeyebowman

[Lihu]

36 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I've replied previously in this thread, but decided to skip to the end,

Unfortunately, the government is a business! It is about, or should be about, the people's business! Safeguarding the nation, building and maintaining infrastructure, and ensuring the opportunity to excel.

Viewing your hidden content, governmental expansion, in both influence and numbers employed by it, renders your argument null and void!

I do agree with your point that businesses do NOT exist to create jobs. That is one of the biggest economics myths that have ever been created. Businesses exist to make money for the owners of those businesses!

I don't know this Oliver guy, but Rush is a wonderful news reporter! He puts their clips, in their own words, right out there on his airwaves, and then proceeds to dissect them wittily, factually, surgically, and microscopically. In other words, he cuts their guts out and turns them into hash!

Much of the hand wringing, and "sturm und drang", over Brexit comes from the fact that the cognoscenti, the literati, the illumined, the intelligentsia, the media, the leadership, the so called "smart ones", NEVER SAW IT COMING!!! They were blindsided!

Since they consider themselves smarter than everyone else, and of the elite, they have a hard time understanding "regular" people and how they feel. And however regular people feel must be wrong, since it's not how they feel!

This reminds me of the Inquisition. The left is the new church, and any thought counter to theirs is in error, and subject to punishment.

Even the main proponents of Brexit were blindsided. They never thought it would pass. The prime minister who suggested the vote was dumbfounded to say the least. I find this entire situation summed up in two words "British humor" 

 

[Silent]

15 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

Bigotry rearing its ugly head.  Wow.

Absolutey. In my opinion this kind of racism and xenophobia is a much, much bigger threat in GB than immigration is.

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Even the main proponents of Brexit were blindsided. They never thought it would pass. The prime minister who suggested the vote was dumbfounded to say the least. I find this entire situation summed up in two words "British humor" 

 

Funny thing is that Farage said before the election that if Remain would win with less than 52%, that it won't mean Brexit is off the table because the margins are too small. Now he won himself with less than 52%....