Hitting Tree on Follow Through

[CoachB25]

After wrapping up practice tonight, a parent came to me with a situation that happened to his daughter this summer playing Junior Golf.  She was under some trees.  She took practice swings outside the limb coverage area, walked inside, shortened her swing and hit a decent punch shot out.  However, she did hit tree limbs on the follow through.  She was told she should assess herself a penalty. 

I asked her to clarify.  I asked if she hit any limbs, did any leaves fall, did she break any limb or growing portion of that tree on her back-swing.  She said she did not and only hit the tree on the follow through.  I asked if this might have had anything to do with bending or breaking a club.  She said she only hit "soft limbs" and barely at that since she hit a punch shot.

What am I missing here?  I don't see a penalty.  This is the same young lady that innocently picked a leaf out of a bunker in the state tournament last year and had that look of embarrassment knowing what she did.

[David in FL]

You're not missing anything.  No penalty at all.

Who was insisting on the penalty?

[Buckeyebowman]

Exactly! You can be assessed a penalty if you hit limbs or such in your backswing, but not in your throughswing, unless the rules of golf have been amended to where they make even less sense than before! I once saw Tiger Woods nearly break a club on a tree in his follow through, and no penalty was assessed.

I think your "rules official" is full of crap!

[CoachB25]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

You're not missing anything.  No penalty at all.

Who was insisting on the penalty?

Her playing partner in Junior's Match insisted that she violated the rules.  I hand each of my players a couple of handout on the rules but, to be sure, one handy thing I try to get for them is, The Rules Caddie which is a nice concise booklet that they can carry in their bags.  She went through the booklet and the other handouts I give them and could not find any rule that she had violated.  Still, she was so panicked at state when she picked up that leaf, to be honest, she has started really questioning herself on the rules. 

[pganapathy]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Exactly! You can be assessed a penalty if you hit limbs or such in your backswing, but not in your throughswing, unless the rules of golf have been amended to where they make even less sense than before! I once saw Tiger Woods nearly break a club on a tree in his follow through, and no penalty was assessed.

I think your "rules official" is full of crap!

Not entirely true.  You can be penalized if you hit it in your practice swing or if you touch the branch and a leaf falls (that is changing or improving your lie) but in your actual shot, you are free to hit the tree behind you and even drop a leaf.  It does not matter because that is part of the shot.  It is similar to you not being able to touch the ground in a bunker or hazard until you actually hit the ball

[Fourputt]

2 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Not entirely true.  You can be penalized if you hit it in your practice swing or if you touch the branch and a leaf falls (that is changing or improving your lie) but in your actual shot, you are free to hit the tree behind you and even drop a leaf.  It does not matter because that is part of the shot.  It is similar to you not being able to touch the ground in a bunker or hazard until you actually hit the ball

You can only be penalized if your actions actually result in an improvement in your area of intended swing.  Just detaching one or two leaves when there are a dozen or more in your swing path doesn't automatically incur a penalty. Decision 13-2/0.5 explains:

Quote

IMPROVING LIE, AREA OF INTENDED STANCE OR SWING, OR LINE OF PLAY

13-2/0.5

 

Meaning of "Improve" in Rule 13-2

Q.Rule 13-2 prohibits a player from improving certain areas. What does "improve" mean?

A.In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player creates a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

• repairs a small pitch-mark, smoothes a footprint in a bunker or replaces a divot in a divot hole on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
• whose ball lies in the middle of a long, shallow-faced fairway bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to playing a long shot over the smoothed area;
• accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
• whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind.

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

• repairs a pitch-mark through the green or replaces a divot in a divot hole five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark or divot hole (e.g., a putt or a low-running shot);
• whose ball lies in a greenside bunker, smoothes footprints five yards in front of his ball on his line of play prior to playing a short shot intended to be played over the smoothed area;
• accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected; or
• pulls strands of grass from rough a few inches behind his ball to test the wind, but thereby reduces a potential distraction for the player, or resistance to his club, in the area of his intended swing.

The determination as to whether a player has created a potential advantage by his actions is made by reference to all the circumstances immediately prior to his stroke. (Revised)

There is also no penalty for knocking lose a leaf or branch on your backswing as long as the stroke is completed.

[bkuehn1952]

We likely will not ever get the full story. Since it was another junior golfer making the call, there is a reasonable chance  the other player got it wrong.  The  other player may have once been penalized for improving her lie when taking a practice swing and misinterpreted how the Rule actually works.

i think we all agree that there was no breach based on the description of the event.

The only other thing I can think of is a Local Rule related to protection of newly planted trees where a player is obligated to take relief.  That seems unlikely.